Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, everybody. Slieve senior Pickleball report is brought to you by TNC Network. Get ready for an exciting episode of people of Pickleball with me, Mike Slieva. We're about to dive deep into conversations with influential figures from the world of Pickleball.
So let's get it going.
Today in our people of Pickleball episode, we speak with Daniel Gole from the Austin Ignite out of the National Pickleball League. Daniel was a former high level tennis player, played at Wimbledon, and he's quite the personality. And we met at Picklecon this year, so we had a great conversation, so stay tuned for that. But before we get to that, if you like this content, consider subscribing to the channel. Follow all the links in the description for discounts and everything you can think of Pickleball wise. Subscribe to our newsletter so you keep up with what's going on in the pickle verse. And hey, let's get to that conversation with Daniel Gold.
All right, folks, we are here with Daniel Gold, Austin ignite from the national pickleball league. Welcome to the senior pickleball report, daniel.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Thanks for having me, sleeves.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: We met at picklecon early August, and we were just standing watching NPL matches, you, myself and a couple other people. And you sort of told me how you got into the game. And it's one of the best yet, most entertaining yet relatable stories, I think that a lot of people can relate to when they enter this game and they think they're the shit. So tell us a little bit about how pickleball came into your life.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: Okay, just to preface this, I wish I was exaggerating, maybe embellishing a little, but unfortunately, every word is true and embarrassing. So I got introduced to pickleball like a lot of people during COVID and I was in Boca raton, which is in south Florida. They actually have clay courts, if you can believe that. And I picked up a paddle with the pro there, played for about half an hour with my wife and kids, went home, turned on YouTube, and did what most people do. You immediately look up the world's best pickleballs. I thought this used to be a game I could be quite good at. So let's see what the very best guys are doing. So I watched what I've now learned to be the final of the US Open. I have no idea who I was watching at the time, but if I recall, I think Scott Moore was probably one of them. Only one of the all time great hall of Famers, right? And I pick up the phone about 20 minutes later. I call the coach who just taught me the game, and I. And I am not exaggerating for a moment. I go, I am world champion. I am literally the greatest player in the world right now today. He goes, what do you mean? I said, well, I've watched a video of the best. They're standing, standing by the net, and they're literally tapping the ball over the net. Not one of them can hit a ball. Nobody's got any pace. They're not going to be able to handle me. I am that good already. So he said to me, okay, I should probably teach you the rules first, and then I'm going to take you somewhere so you can play some people. So fast forward one week. I've now played a couple of times. He takes me to the Delray Beach Tennis center, which is a very well known place for tennis and pickleball here in south Florida. We go to the courts at the back, and it's one of those paddle rack systems where you can challenge people. So my first matchup, I kid you not, was against a polish housekeeper. If she was 75, she might have been nearer 80. And I think she was still dressed from work.
To say that she beat me eleven nothing in five minutes would be an understatement. It might have been quicker than that, but my ego, it was warm up. I accepted that maybe better things.
It was okay. My next opposition was a mexican gardener, and he was wearing a sombrero. And again, I wish I could tell you that this is not true, but he was wearing a sombrero, and he obliterated me quicker than it took the time to warm up. So with my tail between my legs, I walked off the court, never to return until I said I could learn how to play this game. And that was my introduction to pickleball, that this game that looks incredibly easy is actually incredibly complicated.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And you're right, because, you know, you always hear the story of some athlete, that's some guy who's 25, he's ripped, he's playing with his shirt off, and he's got his take up this game, he loses to, you know, an 85 year old person that's got a knee brace and sort of the same vein you did, but you come from a pretty high level of racket sports. I mean, obviously you played some high level tennis. So talk a little bit about what your background was before you, you know, you ran into the gardener and the sombrero.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: Okay, so back in the eighties, I left school at 15 to pursue a professional tennis career.
I played two years of terrible professional tennis, and fortunately for me, I tore my shoulder severely, which was probably the best thing that ever happened for me because the tear would have been 18 months in a sling, and I clearly wasn't good enough to warrant 18 months out. So I was one of these guys that I knew very quickly, having grown up with some of the, what turned out to be some of the great tennis players of the eighties and the nineties, having grown up as kids and played together and watched them play, who the best in the world was going to be. And I knew that wasn't me. I'm the sort of guy that would make up the draw. You never would have heard of me. Maybe you would have told me, you know, ask me if you'd met me in a later life and how many Wimbledons did you play? And I would have been. I played ten. Great. What was your best result? I would have had, you know, maybe I snuck into a third round or something, and then you turn around and have a proper conversation with someone. So I was very fortunate. I got to do a lot of things, played a lot of things once got to play in Wimbledon, which was amazing. And I was fortunate to call it a day when I was young enough to go get a real job. And I can tell you this, I am way better at pickleball than I ever was at tennis.
Wish I found pickleball as a teenager.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Well, there's a thing. I know it's been around, obviously, since the mid 1960s, and my wife was a PE teacher, and she taught it, like, you know, the early two thousands. And she's telling me about it, like, yeah, it's easier than teaching kids how to play tennis in gym class because they can keep the ball in play and, you know, jacketed over the fence. And I'm like, oh, that sounds cute. And then, you know, 20 years later, I'm starting to play it. Now I have a channel, and all of a sudden I would have just taken it up in 2002, man, I could be blank or whatever the heck that is. So what was the challenges? Obviously, you know, you come in, you've got a, you know, you knock it. I get it, you know, self deprecating stuff. But, you know, you played at Wimbledon, you played high level tennis, you had, you have some pedigree there. You walk in and you're like, how hard can this be? What was the thing that shocked you the most about getting into this game where you're like, these people are killing me. What are they, what were they doing to you that you just, you know, wasn't happening on your end?
[00:07:05] Speaker B: Again, I wish I could tell you that I've actually figured this game out perfectly, but I don't think you ever really figure it out because it's moving so rapidly in the short time even I've been playing it. But the problem with being a tennis player coming to pickleball is that you very quickly get very good. But if you want to get great, then you've got then almost every shot you think is the right shot is the wrong shot. So another very funny story was I got to about a four or five level and I started at 3.0 and thought it was the correct behavior to sort of win at every level rather than just turn up and say, here I am, I'm really good after my humiliation. So I went back to the jewelry board and I won at three o and three five, et cetera. So I get to four five and then I've got this aspiration to play at the pro level. And I get introduced to a fantastic coach down here in South Florida who was again, one of the really well known early all time greats of pickleball, a guy called Stefan Jolico. And I turn up to play with him via Steve Kennedy, another great legend of the game. And Steve and I were playing together. He said, you should really go and learn from Stefan. So I turn up to Stefan day one, and I'm again back with the I'm all it and more, ready to launch into a senior pro pickleball career. Stefan feeds me a bucket of balls, doesn't say a word. I am playing fantastic in my own head. We come to the Ned after. He says, how do you think you did? I go, I think I did really well. He looks at me and goes, you're literally terrible.
You are literally in the most fantastic haitian accent. I wish I could impersonate him, but he goes, you're literally terrible. And for the next two weeks, and again, no exaggeration, if you've ever seen the original karate kid movie with Mister Miyagi, wax on, wax off. He had me stand at the Netanyahu for two weeks every day doing this, lifting the ball up and backhand, lifting the ball up. And I was literally standing there going, when do I get to play pickleball? And he goes, when you've learned to dink over the net, that was it. And the problem with this game is for people like myself, is again, you improve so rapidly, but then your natural tennis mindset comes into play, and therein lies the problem. You see shots on a mini tennis court, pickleball court, did you believe are there. The problem is they're not there. They were never there. They're never going to be there. And you're hitting a shot that is just bread and butter to the people on the other side. Of course, tennis singles in pickleball is much more like tennis, but doubles is anti tennis. And almost every shot you want to hit as a tennis player in doubles, pickleball is the wrong shot. And I've got to really try hard to get that out of my system. And I wish I could tell you that I'm there, but I am a work in progress.
[00:10:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, like we all are. I mean, obviously you played national pickleball league last year. I believe you played for Boca Raton and this year playing for Austin. Ignite. Tell me a little bit, because you're almost through the second season here. What's been the change? Is it been basically shot selection between year one and year two for you.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: So again, you turn up at the NPL, which is, of course, you've got all these incredible people. And again, the problem with pickleball, and you'll find this, I think, probably even in the rec games and parks, you watch people play and you're like, I can do that. I'm as good as them. I don't understand. They come in challenging and they quickly realize that the people they're playing are much better than the game looks. So.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: Right.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: The thing about the NPL was I was very fortunate to have access to the best players in the world, and everyone's very gracious in the NPL. It gives you a lot of time. And I was out for dinner one night with two of, honestly, the best players in the world, Stefan Andren, who's from Portland, Oregon, and Paul Olin. And we're sitting having dinner and I'm joking. So when are you ready to play doubles with me? And Stefan literally said to me, you know, you've got this world class forehand. You can hit it as well as anybody. And he looks at me and goes, I don't care. He goes, congratulations. Well done. Until you learn how to go and literally roll shot, a roll shot, dink from the baseline into my feet. That can kick up and go, boy, and do that 50,000 times. When you can do that, come back and we can have a conversation. And he said it with. Said with love, not with any type of magic was, this is what you've got to do. And so the biggest takeaway for me over that period of time was if you don't learn to play the game properly, you're never going to get this. You have to be prepared to go backwards, to go forwards and, you know, look, I'm very fortunate to be playing again this year and my game is definitely improving. But am I, but am I there? No.
Another season needs to go to get to keep dialing in that type of level.
[00:12:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So when you look at the people in that league, because obviously there's different tiers, you know, it's like sort of like playing high school or college tennis, you know, you got your number one doubles team, your number two and so on and so forth. You look at the top tier pros that are, you know, got some compensation to play in the league. What is the difference between guys like gals, you know, like Dave Weinbach and, you know, Jen Dawson and the rest?
Because you watch and everybody's at a pretty high level. Everybody has the shots. It just seems, you know, some people obviously have something else going on there. And part of that for me, I guess, is probably recognition of what your opponent's doing to you faster than most of us can pick up.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: Well, I'll say this, I'll say this to you. When I played pro tennis before you'd hit the ball to me, I just knew by the way you were standing and where your racket was, what you were going to do, and I'd already decided what I was going to do before you'd already hit the ball in pickleball. I'm in that place where the ball's already arrived to me and now I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing and so I'm late to my shot selection. Whereas these fantastic players that you talk about, you know, they play for so many years already, they can literally stand there and wait for me to beat myself because their level of consistency and their shot selection and what the right shot to play at the right time is, that's the next level piece to this game is. They already, you know, they already know the shot they're playing before you hit it. So they're always in the right position, they're always not under stress, except obviously when they play each other, it's a very different matchup because they know each other game so well. But when they're playing people like myself, you know, I'll say, hey, wasn't it great? You know, maybe you lose eleven, 811, nine. You think you were there, but you were never really there.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: Right, right. Yeah.
They allowed you to get the seven or eight maybe because they were allowing it.
[00:14:05] Speaker B: I don't think it's so much allowing it as much that you're going to make those one or two point errors at those moments and you can't win. They're not making those errors. Their level of consistency, what separates four, five from 50 and then 50 from pro and then the levels through pro, because there are obviously levels at pro level even is just that level of consistency of shot making.
And you will lose just because their shot selection, they're picking sensible shots. You mentioned Dave Weinbach before.
Watch how much space Dave Weinbach will give between the net and the height of his dink.
It's incredible how much air he gives. And for someone like myself, I'm like, how does that work? It's an anti tennis shoot.
But Dave's attitude is you can hit the ball 20ft in the air. If it lands close enough to the net, it can't hurt you. So he's not missing those dinks because he's giving himself so much margin for error and he's trained that way. I'm still sitting there thinking, I'm going to hit these shots which are going to clear the net by an inch and doesn't it look pretty and sit like a tennis shot.
It will hurt you and you will then lose.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: Yeah. I talked to a guy earlier at Picklecon, before I actually met you. I don't remember his name, but he's like, you know, top hundred PPA, young kid, athletic. He said basically what you're saying, too. He said, the biggest difference is at the top, they don't miss.
And he goes, they have incredible pattern recognition, too. He goes, they can pick up on whatever it is you're trying to do to them pretty fast, much faster than you'll pick it up against them. And they can figure you out really fast. Mainly, you know, some of the things you've already said, a, they have all the shots selections, b, they're consistent and c, they just know how to go about beating people.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: To show you how right that is, I played a wreck game last week and a split age. I was playing with a top young pro against another guy my age, at my level and another top young pro, and we lost the first two sets, maybe eleven, 811, seven. And then we're sitting there at the break, you know, best three out of five. And my partner said to me, he goes talking about the guy that the other senior pro we were playing, he goes, you know, every single shot he hits only goes to a certain place. And I go, no. He goes, how many times have you played this guy? I go, not that many. He goes, well, I'm telling you, he only plays this type of shot from the minute he told me that we lost four more points the next three sets. Wow.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: So that level, as you said, of these guys with more experience who can see these things quicker, even with all my experience, I never noticed, but the minute I saw it, I couldn't unsee it. And then.
[00:17:01] Speaker A: Right, right. Yeah. And that's the difference in most games. I played three high level sand volleyball, beach volleyball for years. That game's a lot less complex than doubles and pickleball. And there would be guys that you just could not figure them out. They just knew where you were not.
[00:17:22] Speaker B: It's very true. Look, and again, when I warm up playing pickleball and I'm playing with my partner, I'll say, listen, we're going to have a terrible warm up because I'm going to be studying the other two players, trying to figure out someone's worst shot. And whatever that worst shot is, they have to beat us with that shot. That is the only shot they're allowed to have, and that's our job, is to figure it out and then only give them that shot. So I'm trying, you know, we're trying to create that situation. But again, at the, you know, the pro level, it's the weaknesses become a lot less, and their ability to figure and their ability as teams to figure out this is what you're doing and then make adjustments is much more.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Amy, just from the, you know, the. The first year I went to CNPL in Kansas City, ironically, and then Picklecon recently, I could tell the difference already that the game is, you know, you can use the word evolving or whatever you want to use, but definitely the equipment.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: I've totally lost you.
You've literally vanished. I can see myself. I can see you perfectly as a video, but I can't hear you.
Yeah, my wifi is perfect, so.
Can't hear you at all.
Your lips are moving, but I hear nothing.
I can literally just hear a little bit of your voice, a tiny bit, but you're gone.
No, nothing.
I mean, I can hear you trying to talk, but you're in the very, like a million. It's almost like you're a million miles away as a robot.
Should we click off and click back in?
I can't hear you. I'll text you.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: I can hear you hang on. You're back.
[00:19:29] Speaker A: Okay. All right.
[00:19:31] Speaker B: Whatever. Get rid of you.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: I don't know. Technology. Let me do this, though. Let me see if this works real quick. So I may have some people come in. I'll just put these giant things on to see if it matters.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: No, you're gone again. No, totally gone. Without the headphones, you were fine.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: Nope, nope. Okay.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: Okay. All right.
Hey, I look more professional. Look at that.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm feeling intimidated now.
[00:20:06] Speaker A: I look like a NASCAR guy. So what were we talking about? I don't remember.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: Who knows?
I think we're talking about the shopping they had last weekend at the mall.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: No, we were talking about driving the fifth, dropping the third. It seems like that the game is obviously sped up, and it sped up really fast over a year. Really? I noticed.
[00:20:29] Speaker B: And you were talking about the technology and I think the improvements and everything. And it's very interesting because I was always with that tennis game about driving and driving. And then, of course, last year was like, no, no, you've got to be dropping and dropping and dropping. And then this year, technology is such, if you're not playing a power game, you will be overpowered.
[00:20:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:53] Speaker B: And I think, and I think that's shocked a lot of people, particularly maybe the purists who still live in the age of the slow game.
That world has moved on, and some people hate it and some people think it's a good thing. Personally, I think if the sports ever going to go mainstream and translate to audiences and television, people want to see the handbackers. They want to see the pace.
I don't think they appreciate, sadly, the incredible technical ability of people with their dinking. I know I certainly did back in the day, but I don't think it translates that well to the television. And, you know, there's many times I've hit shots and I've seen it again on video. And in real life, I have absolutely creamed that. And in video, people are like, so what's the problem? Doesn't like it's even moved. So I think technology moving on in the game, getting faster, I think, for audiences is a must.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I would agree if it does want to hit the big time, because it does not translate. Like anytime you go to an event, rather than watching it like you did in the beginning, when you're telling your story about how you got into the game, you watch this, you're like, I can do this. But then when you go and you watch in person and in particular, you know, we're talking people over 50 years old, when we, you know, I'm standing there with you and I brought my mother and my father and my sister and my wife, who had never seen any sort of pro level in person ball. They were like, holy shit. And I go, yeah, and all these people are over 50, some of these people are over 60, and they can all rip it. And the technical skills they had every shot, and it's just a different thing to see it in person. I don't know if it'll ever really translate on television, quite honestly. I like watching men's doubles at a high level more than I like watching the women's pro doubles, because I'm not into the two hand, just stand a foot off the kitchen line and rip it. I like, because I love the game that way and I can watch. I know how hard it is to do what Ben Jon's doing, doing against JW Johnson or whatever.
I just don't know if anybody else is going to get into it at that level again.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: I think it's different strokes for different folks, and you've got a lot of competition out there vying for people's airtime and people's time. And I just think that as a product, if it doesn't start to think outside of the box, eventually you're going to hit that ceiling of what do we do now? How do we compete? Because, you know, there's a lot of very established things and then products out that do translate incredibly well. And I think you've got so many people now playing pickleball, so they are understanding again, how hard the game is. But as long as I have people coming to records putting their paddle down to say, I'm going to challenge you because I play a over across the way and I think I can. And they don't understand that. Again, I think that watching on tv, you just won't appreciate how good these guys are.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Right? Absolutely. And most of the people that I play with, well, they finally have figured out there is pro pickleball because I talk about it. But if I didn't, most of them wouldn't even know it exists, nor do they even care to even watch it. So to me, it's an interesting dynamic as you have a large populace that is really into this game that could give a crap about the pro game.
[00:24:22] Speaker B: It's interesting because I've spoken with a lot of people.
I consider myself extremely fortunate to get to play in the NPL and have owners that have given me this opportunity. Of course, I desperately want the league to you know, succeed and become what we all believe it could be. The thing is, you know, again with all that competition, you know, I've likened pickleball and where it's trying to go back to the very early days of wrestling. And if you remember back in very, very early days of wrestling, which also had all that incredible competition from main mainstream sports, and the only people that ever watched that was everybody's grandmothers who would watch on a Saturday afternoon and there'd be a guy in yellow trunks, there'd be a guy in blue trunks and they got behind that. And then I, you know, at some point a really clever man came along and said, I think I'm going to turn these people into characters and I'm going to make villains and I'm going to make flamboyant people and we're going to have matchups. And no longer were people so much. It wasn't so much about the wrestling as so much about I like him, I like that person. That's who I follow. And I've tried to say to some of these guys in the pickleball world that if you don't turn these people into relatable somethings where someone could say, I follow a character, not a person, you're never going to separate yourself from what the amazing other products are already out there.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: It's going to take that type of vision or that type of thought process to elevate pickleball into what I call. Because today, you know, wrestling is beyond mainstream. I mean, these characters are brands in their own right.
And it started from the same place. So I see this journey, it could go to the same place, but only if you allow yourself to let history repeat itself. Because if you just keep it how it is, how are we ever going? You're never going to beat out tennis and you're also never going to beat out mainstream professional pickleball with young, much better looking guys and girls who are significantly younger than us getting all the better contracts.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: Right. Right. I think the benefit, at least for a couple of things that I noticed covering NPL for the first two seasons is there are a lot of characters in NPL.
I would argue there are more characters playing senior pro ball than there are in the open pro. And you can tell by the interviews, you can tell by the chatter on the court if you ever watch senior pro men and you follow them on different tours, like I have the chatter and the chippiness between the guys is what I love and I wish they would be mic'd. Up. I'd love to have Dave mic'd up, you know, Weinbach in chatting over with, you know, Rick Whitzkin and those types of relationships happening in the personality that you bring to the game and some of that fun and yet highly competitive. But at the end of the day, sort of, you know, you watch the social media and they're out having drinks together at the end of the day. But it's intense and it's fun and it's a. And it's high level ball and I think that's the benefit I see the senior game having. The other thing I see is the way it's run.
I have not seen a league or an association that's run quite as well as NPL. And the way that it makes the participants feel. They feel like they're professionals. And I get it. It's a different realm if you're playing open pro because, you know, you're trying to make a living and you folks have. You've done your things in life, this is bonus time. This is the icing on the cake. But, boy, I tell you, whatever they're doing over there, everybody I talk to just digs it.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: Again. I think you hit the nail on the head. I mean, anybody who's playing in the NPL who gets too far ahead of themselves quickly gets a reality check from those that are there, that we're over 50 and we're blessed to get to sort of got back out on tour again. And the banter and the camaraderie. I often joke, the social is so fantastic. It's a shame we have to play pickleball.
And I genuinely mean it because you.
[00:28:38] Speaker A: I get it.
[00:28:39] Speaker B: You suddenly make, you know, 200 friends from around the country. But genuinely, as you said, these characters are amazing and the personalities and, you know, you quickly fall in love with all these people and you're wishing for the next event to come around.
[00:28:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And the events are. They're events. That's the thing. I think that's what I enjoy is, you know, it's six events throughout the summer and early fall, and it's a. It's. It's sort of this. You're anticipating seeing each other each month and at a new venue, doing a new thing in the league, still growing. And so every year for a while, you'll probably have new teams and a new group of friends and, you know, we're still mixing up teams at this point. So you'll have people that you were competing against that you'll get to know a little better next season. I mean, you played on two different teams in two years, so I think it's got such a huge upside to it that I don't know. I think ultimately it's because people like yourself who are in the league love it. And all of you have these dynamic backgrounds where you don't have to always reach out and find people to try and figure some things out because you've got people that have vast professional experience in your league.
[00:29:58] Speaker B: It's interesting, you say a couple of weeks ago and you talk about these events, the league puts on these fantastic Friday night events for us at every event.
And a couple of weeks ago we had a trivia night. And at one point in the trivia night was, how well do you know your teammates? And it was 32 questions. And it's quite interesting because in my little world, people get quite excited, oh, you play some professional tennis, it's like, okay, fine, whatever. And they do these 32 questions. And the people at the NPL, they're your friends.
There really is no antagonistic behavior. Everybody's loving and hugging, kissing and joking around and really trying to give each other a lot of abuse in jest, you know, when you're playing and it's great. It's great backers. And they start doing the questions about how well you know your teammates. And it goes along the lines of, so which one of your teammates has won a couple of grand slam doubles titles? Which one of your teammates played mixed doubles with John McEnroe at the French Open? Which one of your teammates played her first Wimbledon at 14? Which one of your teammates beat Martina Navratlova in the quarterfinals of the French? And you're sitting, you know, by the way they're moving from tennis, which one was a world class badminton player? Which one was a world class table tennis player? And you're sitting like, no, no, these are my, these are normal people around the table, right? Realize that back in the day you're sitting amongst royalty of their sports, but back in the day, you would never have had the type of, they probably wouldn't behave that way and you would never have had the access to have had the type of relationships because of the level of competition. Yet here everybody's just welcoming and loving and trying to help everybody get better and you sit around and go, really? You did that? I mean, even finally, was one of the sweetest guys in the whole league, was which one of your teammates once got beaten up by the Hells Angels and we've all put it down and we've all had these things. And of course, the person it turns out to be was, without question, one of the nicest, most unassuming guys you could ever imagine. I mean, you know, of the hundred men that play in the league, he'd have been in the bottom 10% that you ever could have imagined him in a bike gang getting beaten up by the hell danger. He goes, I was a punk when I was a kid.
[00:32:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And that's amazing. That's the diversity. And that's what I'm talking about. Those are the personalities, because everybody's got these unbelievable, amazing stories. You know, people like you, you know, and, you know, obviously I read your little bio on your Austin Ignite page, and apparently the. Is the Elton John reference real? Did that happen? It is.
[00:32:44] Speaker B: It is very true that back in the eighties when I was playing, Elton was playing. Used to love playing tennis. And he would play a lot where I used to play. And every day we would play together and we'd go out for dinner, and anywhere he was in the world, I would know where he was and. And have access to calling him and speaking. He'd come over to our house and we go out for dinner and, you know. Yes, he. You know, it was quite funny because I actually was playing at Wimbledon. They gave everyone tickets to go to the Elton John concert.
[00:33:13] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:33:14] Speaker B: And what was interesting was nobody really believed me that I knew him. And it was my birthday, and he happened to know, this one's for Daniel. Happy birthday. I was sitting in his, so he knew exactly where I was. Yeah, it's true. It's one of those strange things. But what's ironic is, you know, if you ever go and see his movie back in the eighties, how messed up his life was. What's crazy is we really did have that amazing relationship back then. And, yeah, I bumped into him a couple of years ago some. I went up to say hello. I hadn't seen him in obviously, like, 30 years. Had zero recollection of any part of that period in his life. Like it never happened.
[00:33:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:53] Speaker B: And I'm. I mean, he was in my house.
[00:33:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:56] Speaker B: I mean. I mean, like, I knew everything. But, you know, you go through the things he went through back in the day and you realize how out there it was. You know, it was fun for me, but you realize that, you know, thank God he is where he is today.
[00:34:12] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing. All of you have these journeys that, you know, 50, 60 years on this planet. And I think that's ultimately what makes this league tick and I watched the PPA and the app and MLP and all that stuff and these. I'll use the word kids. Some of them aren't kids, but just struggling to sort of not only find their place in pickleball, but in life. And it's just. There's so much angst. It's so much like I watch them on sidelines, they're all frustrated and stuff, and then I watch. I'm not saying NPL is not competitive and stuff like that, because when I see the timeouts and people are talking, but it's just a different vibe because, like I said, you have this vast life experience and this is the bonus part and the odds of something like this happening where I would argue that senior pros have the most opportunity to play than regular pros. I mean, you can play on the PPA, you can play the app, you can play NPL, and you can play on the senior pro tour. I mean, like, there's tons of opportunities for y'all and it's really cool to see.
[00:35:20] Speaker B: I don't think that any of us, you know, like I said, I think most people have some type of very high level sporting background. Some were clearly way more successful than others with it, but everybody tried to do something.
[00:35:32] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:35:32] Speaker B: And I don't think anybody ever imagined they would get to capture the feeling, forget the competitiveness again for a moment. But that feeling of what it meant back in the day to be able to do those things, I think they were. They were long forgotten emotions.
You were nostalgic, you remember, but you never thought you would ever get to feel again. And suddenly we're all here again and everybody's feeling like they're back in their twenties and teenage twenties, in their thirties competing.
And like I said, you never thought you would get that rush of adrenaline, that camel, you know, that competitiveness that you just thought would never come around again. Of course it's there. And I think that's what's driving everybody for as long as they can to hold onto it because we never thought we'd get it again.
[00:36:24] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. There's definitely a gratefulness vibe that is within NPL that, like, holy crap, look what's happened to us and look what we get to do with one another. It's sort of an all star teams of, like, people that had unbelievable athletic backgrounds and professional backgrounds and life experiences. It's cool to watch. So where do you see this going? I mean, you know, it's only the second season.
They've already added twelve teams every. I interview all the ownership team, you know, personnel, and it's. Everybody's super jacked when they're in the league, and I catch up with them a year later, they still love it.
You know, I've heard they want to add up to 30 teams, and I would. I would think eventually maybe, you know, play in your own town, if you got a facility and stuff like that. So where do you see it going?
[00:37:13] Speaker B: I think some of what, I think what you just described is exactly the journey it needs to go on. I feel that. And again, if you don't have a hometown team playing in front of home, sound support, again, at a certain point in time, these things have to get monetized.
[00:37:31] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:37:31] Speaker B: So, you know, it's, for the players, it's wonderful. But for ownership, of course, there's more grown, this grown up conversation that needs to happen. I think if you're ever going to make this into the mature business, that it needs to be or wants to be. Hometown facilities with hometown teams, with hometown talent, predominantly is essential. You're never going to sell a match shirt from a guy that you know isn't in the town, that you can't do clinics with, that you can't have access to the local families, the local friends. They want to come and support you.
I know that I happened to play a match last week against Boca, and it wasn't just against Boca, but it was actually against two of my great friends from down here. We played together all the time. We find ourselves in the court together.
We play in a group of guys on a group chat, and of course, you know, our group of guys on that group chat were commentating while watching our match to each other through the match, you know, and there's a lot of abuse, of course, that goes on in that, but that was the point. Had that match been in South Florida at a local venue, you would have had all of those people inside that stadium rooting for the hometown heroes. And I think that's an essential part, this. You know, I felt that Kansas did a wonderful job of trying to make that feel like it was home. Columbus. When we were in Columbus, again, there was matches. I played against Columbus in Columbus where when they won a point, the noise was certainly a lot louder than when I won a point. But I loved that. I loved that that was happening, and I think that's. That's where it needs to go. Yes, you're going to end up with more teams, more regionalized, you know, just like in the NFL is obviously what I think they'd like to do. But again, there's no point in having teams that don't have a fan base. Again, I think that's an essential part of this. I think that's where they're going to hopefully take this.
[00:39:29] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's the same, obviously, with the open the game as well as, you know, major league pickleballs going through the same thing where they're trying to figure out can we have actual home in a way matches and can we build a fan base? And obviously, part of that is waiting for the infrastructure to catch up as we see. Yeah, we see the infrastructure starting to explode. All right, before I let you go, what were your overall impressions of? I know, I know you were playing, so you didn't have a lot of time, probably, but what'd you think of Picklecon? I mean, very first event, I think.
[00:40:02] Speaker B: That conceptually it was marvelous. You know, it was a big event, lots of great stands.
I think they obviously, clearly underestimated what it would take to get people through the door. I think that, again, coming back to business versus an idea, I think when you do something in its infancy, in its first year, it's all about foot count. And the price point of what they charged to get people through the door, I think was clearly hard for people. I think they should have charged a nominal fee to get foot traffic through the door because the main foot traffic I saw was people playing in the other tournaments they had there rather than coming to the stands. But I think that conceptually and potential wise, if you fix that piece where a family can come out on the weekend, they can play pickleball, they can play in a lower level pickleball tournament, should they wish, and they can come and watch prose play, and you can go and shop and try all the latest and greatest stuff. It's a no brainer. But again, to get people through the door, you have to make it that they cut, that you're competing again against a movie theater or some other type of thing for a family to do. So you have to make it a no brainer that you can't help yourself but come and check it out. And I think if they could do it all again, that would probably be a takeaway, I would say to them. But conceptually, I thought it was fantastic to walk in and again be passed a very large something.
[00:41:37] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. And I agree with you 100%. I think a nominal fee, or maybe not a fee at all. I mean, you get people that they're going to spend some money there. Once you.
[00:41:48] Speaker B: The nominal fee was just to unfortunately keep. That's just homeless people from walking in. And I don't mean that in any disrespect to people, but I think you're forced to do that just for that purpose in some of these cities.
But when I say nominal, I'm thinking it's a couple of bucks.
[00:42:06] Speaker A: Yeah, right.
[00:42:06] Speaker B: I'm not thinking $10 or $15. I'm thinking like, kids are free parents, two parents for $5 or something, come in and then you'll spend money when you're there. Just by the sheer nature of what's available to you, which is what the vendors need. The vendors need. The vendors need the income. They need to put traffic.
[00:42:25] Speaker A: Yeah. How about on the NPL side? I mean, obviously these are temp ports on a civic floor, civic center floor, which have obviously some divots in it and so forth. I watched plenty of matches where there were some dead balls. And my belief is at the beginning of the event for NPL is I would have said, listen, because I play on the world's worst pickleball courts and we don't. That's just the breaks. You get a bad bounce. That's just how it goes. Like, we start playing balls over, like we're going to be there forever. And I thought that maybe should have been how they handled it. Like, listen, everybody's playing on this surface. You're going to get some good ones and you're going to get some shit ones and we're all going to have to deal with it rather than. Is that a bad ball? Do we have to play that over? So what were your thoughts?
[00:43:13] Speaker B: Well, firstly, I think, you know, the concept of it was going to have an opinion, as you, as you rightly just said, was a foolish one. And that was quickly stopped because the reality is we're playing with a wiffle ball that gets bent out of shape in about three minutes. So the concept of a pure bounce does not exist in our sport. So if you're all playing on the same court and you're all playing on both ends, the concept of it died. I got a bad bounce. I get a bad bounce all the time. And therefore it had to be whatever, you know, you play the game.
[00:43:53] Speaker A: That is the game.
[00:43:54] Speaker B: If you're worried about a bad bounce, pickleball is probably not going to be for you, but you, because you play with an egg half the time.
[00:44:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Do you think it was beneficial for NPL to play at Picklecon despite. I mean, obviously wasn't the greatest conditions or playing on a surface like that, you're playing on pretty much pure cement, which is tough on anybody, let alone being over 50. And we talked a little bit about the bounce, but like last year I was at the chicken and pickle in Kansas City and it was just a bunch of people that obviously were waiting for their match to watch because it wasn't the greatest place to watch a professional or any sort of pickleball. It's a place to go play. This seemed to have a little better access to watch people. They had some stands and particular things, and you could go and watch.
Do you think NPL would be back to Picklecon because of maybe a potential bigger audience being exposed to?
[00:44:47] Speaker B: Look, I think all things have pros and cons, and you have to decide which one of the pros and which one are the cons you can live with and you can't live with, like, anything, you know, from a pro aspect, the concept of what should have been foot traffic of anywhere from five to 15,000 people coming with an MPL product that people wouldn't have necessarily known about and get to enjoy, that's a massive pro. Forget the reality. It didn't materialize. But that would be a massive pro. The con being, yes, the rollout courts, some of the ones I played with in practice on the Friday, were so slippery. I'm like, I'm not playing. I am just coming back from knee surgery a year ago. I felt like in the throws of a game, you could easily slide where you didn't expect and really hurt. So from a quality of game standpoint, the game is going to suffer because the courts are not top notch courts. They're just not.
You have to weigh up. How much do we sacrifice in year two of the NPL with the delivering of a product with people that, in essence are very fortunate just to be there in the first place. With the trade off, we couldn't should have had foot traffic of five to 15,000 people learning about pickleball, seeing pickleball, getting to be around people and then getting to see this pro league go on. And as a trade off, if someone had said to me a month ago, before anything had happened, the courts are going to be not perfect, but you're going to have audiences and an atmosphere beyond anything we've had before. As a business, I would take that every day and on Sundays, you know, when we played at chicken and pickle last year, as good as the surfaces might have been, you had terrible glare through the window.
[00:46:37] Speaker A: Yeah, that's tough.
[00:46:38] Speaker B: We've been to other venues again with terrific courts and with white fences and yellow walls, and you play with a yellow ball. Most facilities across America right now are not being built for professional pickleball players. They're being built for families to come out on a Sunday and have a fantastic time. And they don't understand that the yellow ball of a yellow wall is not built for us. So we're trading off almost weekly that concept of here's the perfect venue. The perfect venue today in America for pickleball indoors with 20 plus courts to hold an event like ours, if it exists. I haven't been there. We've been to one in Cincinnati, which is the best one we've been to. I believe we're going to hold the finals this year. Yeah, I mean, the quality of court was fantastic. It was still, though, a adapted furniture store that got adapted to make a pickleball or an old test.
And you've got air conditioning units above the courts and does it in p play. No, but do I know it's there? Yes. Wonky? Yes. But the quality of the courts were fantastic. So perfection doesn't exist right now. Going to come. So for me, all day long, deliver me the crowds, deliver me more. People that are buying into the game, that are getting enthusiastic about the game and people like us, as much as we've got opinions and egos and everyone thinks they're supersized, we're still just a bunch of senior guys with the privilege of getting to play pickleball. And by the time the sport gets to where it's going, we're going to be distant memories. Therefore the sport is more important than us. So, yes, they should, in my opinion. Yes, Picklecon, if they're going to do it and they're going to have you and they can get the foot traffic, it is a bank. It's a fantastic opportunity to grow your brand.
[00:48:27] Speaker A: Well said. I agree with everything you're saying. And I guess what, Picklecon's new NPL is new. All of this is new. Picklecon will be back in Kansas City one more year and then they're going to try some other places. So it'll be interesting to see what changes over the year. And I hope NPL is back because I do think they'll figure some things out on the Picklecon side to get more foot traffic in there. We're all filling out surveys, vendors and panelists and participants, and they seem pretty open because they know it's new and we're trying to all figure this out. But, yeah, I think you hit out some great points. We're still in the wild west version of this.
[00:49:07] Speaker B: You know what? Blessed to have these problems. I mean, you know, absolutely. I mean, we get to play pickleball every day with our friends. I mean, you know, the things it's done for families. I mean, you know, I could never take my family on my worst day and go and play tennis.
[00:49:24] Speaker A: Right.
[00:49:25] Speaker B: The ball travels too far.
[00:49:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:27] Speaker B: It's got too much going on. The ball comes back to me. I'm picking it up more than I'm doing yet. I could take anybody to a pickleball court, and we can have a great afternoon. I don't care about my level or their level.
[00:49:38] Speaker A: Right.
[00:49:39] Speaker B: Look, what this does socially for families is amazing. So, you know, we're truly blessed, and we're lucky to have it.
[00:49:45] Speaker A: Yeah, and we're lucky, right? You're lucky to have it. And there's lucky to have opportunities that there is a pro level at all and let alone a pro level for folks that, you know, are our age.
[00:49:54] Speaker B: So we'll say, look at these relationships. I mean, you know, a month ago, you and I don't even know each other, and a month later, after hanging out. Come on, let's go and, you know, do this.
[00:50:04] Speaker A: Right. We're best friends. I know. It's weird. I don't get it either, but.
[00:50:08] Speaker B: Well, you're very lucky.
[00:50:10] Speaker A: I am very grateful for you.
[00:50:11] Speaker B: You don't know how lucky you are to have me in your world.
[00:50:14] Speaker A: That's right.
Hey, Daniel, thanks for your time. Any. Any last minute thoughts here? People that have supported you, brands that are supporting you that you want to mention before we. We get you out of here?
[00:50:26] Speaker B: You know, I think first and foremost, you know, I am beyond appreciative to, you know, Michael Chen and, you know, Rick Whitskin and Beth Beaumont for creating the NPL.
And then, you know, you can mention all the owners that then decided to buy into that vision and do it because, honestly, it has been an amazing thing in my life. And without those owners taking the chance on their idea to do it, none of this would have happened.
[00:50:57] Speaker A: I mean.
[00:50:57] Speaker B: I mean, to be fair, the thought of me wants to play a regular tournament again, I'd have to really want to do it because it doesn't give me what the NPL does. So I'm very glad, you know, the great friends you make with the other owners, but particularly, you know, Rick and Kyle from Boca Raton. I mean, they've been.
[00:51:14] Speaker A: I love those.
[00:51:15] Speaker B: They're two of my dearest friends, and I got to play for them, and now I get to play against them and, you know, and I love playing for them and I hate playing against them, but I love playing against them. I love them. And, you know, and then. But because of that, I got to meet the guys at the Austin ignite, and they're now like family to me. And I'm incredibly blessed to have, you know, Steve Unger and Scott tremeth and Shona and DK, the owners that ownership.
[00:51:38] Speaker A: It'S a fun group.
[00:51:38] Speaker B: Great phrase now. And, you know, you've got your paddle companies. You know, I support a great local guy here, dink sports, and Scott, man, who's done an amazing job building his brand. And you feel, you know, we're all very lucky. I'm lucky to have great people behind me, you know, and so there you are.
[00:51:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:59] Speaker B: You know, I've got very. The number one supporter in my life who hates me for this is my wife. She goes, I never signed up for you to go back out on tour.
We've got three daughters who played very, who played. Two have played college volleyball already, once.
A very high level junior just going to be playing college volleyball. So we're traveling nonstop for volleyball our whole lives for, like, the last 20 years, and then all of a sudden, not only does she have those weekends, suddenly I'm gone for pickleball. She's like, I didn't sign up for this, right? So my greatest thanks goes to her, because without her, most of the time smiling when I leave through the door. Yeah, we did just move home the other week, and I left her to move us while I went to Kansas to play pickleball. That didn't. It was actually, it wasn't Kansas. It was Columbus. That didn't go down so well. But other than that one weekend, she's very supportive.
[00:52:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And my wife's the same way. My wife just says, when Pickleball's just coming too much into her day, she just goes, pickleball, pickleball, pickleball, pickleball, pickleball, pickleball. Like, hey, this is what we do.
[00:53:00] Speaker B: My wife literally said to someone the other night, she goes, I know all his results. I know just how well he did. But I will never, ever ask how he did that one weekend when we moved house. I don't care how he did. I don't want to know how he did. I don't even care if he got hurt.
That's how it is.
[00:53:19] Speaker A: Yeah, that's how it is. Well, I appreciate your time, Daniel and everybody links in the description for NPL Austin ignite and a little bit more about Daniel Gold. And, hey, great conversation. Looking forward to maybe seeing you next year out on tour.
[00:53:34] Speaker B: I look forward to it. If you're ever here in south Florida, let's go and hit some bulls.
[00:53:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I got to get down there because Carl and Rick keep going. Come on down, man. You know, you put you up, and I got to hit some balls at those guys.
[00:53:47] Speaker B: So, listen, I only know anybody in pickleball because of Karl Foster. Him and I, when we first, when we were playing, we were dominating the 2.5 level. We had nicknames. Fish and chips was how we referred to. Everyone knew us as fish and chips. We had a three month run of never losing. So I owe a lot to that mandev.
[00:54:06] Speaker A: Yes. I'm actually talking to him after we hang up, so that'd be nice.
[00:54:10] Speaker B: Well, listen, you can send him by love and affection.
[00:54:13] Speaker A: Hope you enjoyed our conversation with Daniel Gold of the Austin and United National Pickleball League. All the links in the description you need to find out about Daniel and what he's doing, what he's playing with. All right, folks, at the end of the day, hey, let's pick.
[00:54:32] Speaker B: A.
