Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Slaves here. Senior pickleball report powered by TNC network Let's get it going.
Today in our people of Pickleball episode, we speak with LA's favorite uncle, Julio Rivera. He is the number one pickleball coach in Los Angeles and he is the director of pickleball at Santa Monica Pickleball center and he's a National pickleball League pro from last season and lots of insight into the game as it continues to develop and evolve. We had a great conversation and we talk a little bit about the movie that I'm in, Dreambreaker, a pickleball story, because he's got some nice insights about what's going on there as well. But before we get to that, if you like this content, consider subscribing to the channel. Check out our merch page as well. We also have a newsletter and a bunch of discounts below. And. All right, I think that's all. Let's get to that conversation with Julio. It's interesting, and I'd like to have a part two eventually. All right, here we are with Julio Rivera. He is LA's favorite uncle and number one pickleball coach. Welcome to the senior Pickleball Report, Julio.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: Thank you, Mike. It's nice to be here.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: Yeah. We touched base last year at NPL event and I finally, finally got you on the show. I'm notoriously slow getting back to people, but it's all good. I've seen your resume before in the past, and you are pretty prolific in the game.
But before we get to all the amazing things you've done and you're currently doing, we need to figure out how you got into this game because it's obviously taken over people's lives, including yours, in some level. So how did the wiffle ball game find you?
[00:01:50] Speaker B: I think that's a great question.
I love to ask that question of everybody. So origin story is always the best, especially with pickleball, being that it's so, you know, new. It's not new. It's not new, but it's kind of new. So I guess, you know, people call me an early adopter, but I don't think I'm an early adopter. If you start in 2018, late, you know, mid to late 2018, you're not really an early adopter. I. I think, you know, just after, you know, the tournament scene started to start going, you know, start getting ramped up, I think 2016, USO and nationals, they were starting. They're already starting to, you know, become something.
But I do take credit for being there. Then and it's a lot of fun because a lot, as you know, has happened in a small. In a very small period of time. It's kind of. It's really, really odd, you know, the world, the pickle world that I come from. So my story is, I started with two friends, two pros, two current pros. Right now we live here in LA, and we were both, all three of us are high level tennis players, and we used to play weekly. We had a group of players and we rotated a bunch of play, and it was just tennis, tennis, tennis, tennis.
We became really good friends and we kind of did a lot of other things together. Dinners, vacations, you know how it goes. It's community.
We built our small community of tennis players, and while we were looking to do other things, we stumbled into paddle tennis, or what people call pop tennis.
I think the origin is somewhere in Venice.
[00:03:51] Speaker A: They have seen it played on Venice beach. Right, those courts there. Yeah.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: Right. So the origination, I believe, is from Venice. I could be wrong. So somebody out there, fact check me, I know they play it in small, different pockets.
It's a caged mini tennis court.
It's so much fun. Half of the mystique is being there in Venice. You're right next to muscle beach.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: There's music playing.
There's all kinds of things in the air.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: It's just a vibe.
My friends and I, we became addicted to paddle. We started playing paddle after we would play tennis.
One sunny day, a friend of ours asked our friend Jesse said, hey, jesse, you know, you can make money playing pickleball. And then we all looked at each other like, oh, really? You know, we've always, like, wanted to do something, wanted to be competitive. We still are very competitive with each other. Paddle only offered one or two tournaments a year, and that really wasn't doing it. At this point in 2018, there were a good handful of tournaments. I believe there was the lakes, there was the nationals, there was us Open, there was TOC.
[00:05:12] Speaker A: Yeah, tournament champions. Yeah.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: I believe there was Tommy Wong.
So there were these tournaments that were going on, already established, and I believe, like Kyle Yates, Simone.
Ben was playing. He was just playing. I think he started in 16 or 17, I'm not sure, but we already knew. We already knew about Ben.
I'm trying to think of the other pros that were playing a litany of other guys. Joey Ferrius and the likes.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: The ogs. The ogs, right.
[00:05:53] Speaker B: So that was that time. So we jumped into it immediately because we were high level tennis players.
We had some success. The game translates.
You still have to learn the nuance, but it generally translates, you know, ball perception, depth perception, hand eye, all of the above. So you start like anyone else. You show up to a rec park. We showed up to Memorial park.
There were four tennis courts that the ambassador had control of, three tennis courts. And he, with a couple of other volunteers, would, every morning, would line up with, you know, with painters, tape courts, and there was temp nets and lines, and there were three pickleball. I'm sorry, twelve pickleball courts in total.
There. One tennis court next to it. I walk into the. Walk into the pickleball club. Not the club, it's just a public park. I walk into the park and it's nothing but, you know, middle aged to senior individuals, people.
[00:07:06] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
And it's packed. I mean, packed. I've never seen a tennis court this full in my life. Yeah, I look, and there's eight to ten paddles sitting on the floor. They didn't have paddle racks then. There were eight to ten paddles on the floor with people waiting to get in. And I didn't. I had seen pickleball a year prior out in Indian Wells while I was going to a tennis event, and I saw these people and. And I really kind of like, was like, what is this? And I saw the ball and I saw. And I was like, ah, no way. And I kind of, you know, I just overlooked it. And the following year, I walk in, and, like I said, it is packed. Packed. Three tennis courts. I look over to the tennis court and there's nobody there. Yeah, there's nobody there. I could see a tumbleweed just like. And to me, that was, like, huge for me because, you know, I've been coaching tennis for a few years now, and I was wondering where tennis was going to go. And I started, and I can feel it slowing down myself. And not that tennis is dead. And I love tennis, and I played tennis for over 40 years, and I'm a solid tennis player, and I will continue to play tennis. So I'm not shitting on tennis. I'm just saying it was just something like, wow. And I'm just staying in the fox. This is what I saw. This is what I see in my neighborhood.
I saw nobody really playing tennis. This is pre Covid.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Is that sort of an emotional. A little bit because you've been involved in the sport for so long? Did you kind of go, was it sort of a bummer to see the court, like, you know, it's just kind of empty and things slowing down?
[00:08:52] Speaker B: Well, I mean, absolutely, you know, yes, yes and no, you know. Cause, you know, I believe things have to evolve, and I think, you know, you have to just keep, you know, getting bigger and better and doing different things. I also think that tennis in some ways, you know, it has its format, and that's it. It's, you know, it hasn't really evolved from anything.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:14] Speaker B: So, you know, nowadays, people, you know, looking to be stimulated, and they, you know, they want to see things moving. And so, you know, I didn't feel bad, but what I did feel is like, holy cow, there's a whole nother world out here, right? I couldn't believe it. And for me, somebody, I was like, wow, look at this. This is amazing. So I went on to the court. I went out to the court and, you know, started playing, and they had the designated courts, the three o, the two, you know, just the same way in tennis, you know, you do your ratings. So the ambassador, who knew we were. Who knew we were coming, he ushered us over to the four or five court, and we started playing, and that was it. It was just, like, instant. You just started playing this, and you're like, wow, this is pretty cool.
I remember, like, this is still 2018. People weren't really driving the ball much, but, you know, that's all I knew. I'm a tennis player. I don't know anything else. So, you know, I'm trying. I'm playing that, you know, that banger pickleball, which everybody's playing now, by the way.
[00:10:20] Speaker A: Right.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Even the pros. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a whole nother conversation we could talk about. Right.
But, you know, I go and I drive my first ball, and I hit a winner in the back corner, you know?
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:38] Speaker B: And they were torn between, like, nice shot, and being appalled that I actually drove the ball.
So the guy was like, we don't do that here. And I'm like, do what? You know, it works.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Hit the ball over.
[00:10:56] Speaker B: Meanwhile, this is when, like, pickleball two had a lot of awkward looking players, you know, guys that held the paddles a little differently. Not ping pong, but even a little bit different and, you know, look a.
[00:11:10] Speaker A: Little bit more, maybe.
[00:11:11] Speaker B: Yeah, a little Rob Cassidy, the Jeff Hornics, you know.
Yeah, Rob's. Rob's one of my favorite lefties in the world, and he knows that.
Yeah. But, you know, the guys that kind of hold a pad a little different, they play a little, you know, what I call awkward, but it's more like unconventional pickle you know?
[00:11:30] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: You're just not used to it coming from a tennis, you know, from a tennis background. You see. You see an angle and you see someone approach the ball in a way that doesn't make sense, but yet it comes over. You're just like, what the hell? You know?
[00:11:44] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: So, you know, you start to learn, and then you learn that. You're like, oh, this is cool. I can be good at this. So once that happened, that was it. The gloves came off and, you know, there was, you know, paddles started to go away.
You know, I still have tennis in my life, but, you know, pickle, you know, pickle just kind of took over. I could tell you in all honesty, I don't even know if this is a good admission, but I can tell you probably from. Probably from 2020, you know, I hadn't taken a day off of pickle for about four years, maybe three and a half years. I think I played pickleball. Some sort of. Some sort of drilling, teaching, playing, competing.
Yeah. And then I took, like, a family vacation. We took eight days, and that was, like, groundbreaking. I didn't bring my paddle. Good for you. I went to Puerto Rico for eight days. I didn't bring my paddle. And got a bunch of phone. I didn't even know that, you know, I didn't know. People knew me on the island.
[00:12:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: And people were inviting me to come play pickleball, and I was like, no paddle, no shoes, you know, but that's what it does. You know, the game would just, you know, just kind of, you know, grabs you, and it's just a lot of fun and. And it, you know, and it's not just a competition, and it's like the new family that you're afforded, you know?
[00:13:06] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: The community, and I think everybody's always in search of a community, and pickleball kind of gives that to you. You know, everybody's just out there to have a good time. Well, most, most everybody's out there.
[00:13:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: And. Yeah. And that was it that. That started. That started that. The journey, you know, the journey started. Okay, well, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to be really. I want to be good. I want to be really good. I want to be the authority. I want to be one of the best.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: And so then I started doing the things that you do, you know, to become great. I mean, you know, how many. How many Kobe videos have you seen? How many Michael Jordan videos have you seen? You know, you know, it's. How many, you know, Andre Agassi, you know, stories and books you read, you know, it's the same thing. You gotta, you know, repeat, repeat, practice, drill, grind, get better, you know? So I was very lucky to have a couple of good friends.
I'll name drop Jesse Irvin Scott Crandall. They're very good friends of mine, and we started together.
Jesse took off, as she should. She's so talented, but she took off. There's a great need for high level women. So once the word was out that there's a high level woman out, it's like, vultures. The vultures start circling.
She got to start playing with Jeff Warnicke for a while. And so that kind of meant that we all got to play with Jeff Warnick and crew. And that's just amazing.
A lot of it's documented on my instagram, but it's been a fascinating journey.
We met so many people. Jesse and Scott went off way more than I did and just really got entrenched in it and was, you know, very good early. And that's what you have to do. You know, you've got to get in and break in earlier. It's really hard to get partners.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Obviously, because the depth just keeps adding year after year, actually day after day, because people finding this game and whatever, if they're high level, this or that, and some people just have a knack for it. I think what's cool about your story is you are, like you mentioned you're. You're sort of on that edge of. Of when the pro game really started to get going. And, you know, a bunch of us Covid people came in, and to us, that seems like in pickleball years, like the 1920s, you know, it's like. Yeah, but it's like, you know, eight years ago total.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. It's not. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy, right?
[00:15:48] Speaker A: Yeah. But that's what's cool about it, and that's what I think, you know, I went to Venice beach for the first time in 1981, and I remember watching, you know, yeah, pop tennis or whatever they're calling it.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like pop paddle now.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: And so when I got into pickleball, I thought to myself, because I, you know, it was 1981. I'm just 40 years later, I was like, was that the game I was watching? And then I, like, looked it up, and I'm like, oh, no. But it's. It. Because it felt so similar. I'm like, the court's small. They're hitting a ball, and it was. It was not tennis. And I was like, maybe that's the game. I, I remember it. But then my wife reminded me that when she taught PE 20 years ago, she used to teach pickleball because she could get the kids to actually keep the ball in play.
[00:16:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: Instead of hitting it.
[00:16:34] Speaker B: Makes sense.
[00:16:34] Speaker A: Correct. Over the fence. But for you, obviously, this has been a whirlwind journey over the last six, seven years. I mean, now, your director of pickleball.
[00:16:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I know.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: Santa Barbara Pickleball center, so.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: Yeah, talk, talk about, like, Santa Monica. Yeah, Santa Monica Pickleball center.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: That's right. Santa Monica, man.
[00:16:56] Speaker B: Wrong beach.
[00:16:58] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And then you've, you've obviously worked with some high profile people, actresses, musicians. Like, your life has become sort of celebrity, like in this world. I mean, you go to Puerto Rico, people know you're there. So talk about a little bit about that journey and the surrealness of, like, all of a sudden, I'm, you know, I'm running a facility. I'm going to be part of a facility. I'm going to own a facility. I'm going to coach these people. I'm playing pro pickleball over 50. Talk about some of those things.
[00:17:27] Speaker B: Well, that's all happening all at one time, right? So it's just kind of whirlwind, you know?
Look, you know, life throws you things and you've got to catch them and go with them. You know, you can't just say, oh, well, you know, I don't have time for this, I don't have time for that. At least that's the way I think, you know?
[00:17:48] Speaker A: Right.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: You know, not, they're not always going to be knocking on the door, and there's not always opportunity.
I saw an opportunity in pickleball beyond just rec play. I saw, because, you know, tennis became my business.
It was the way I was earning money, you know, working with, you know, high end clientele.
I already had a model in mind, and I said, you know, this could be something that will bring longevity to longevity to me, because, you know, as you know, tennis is very physical. This is something else that I can do and be successful and, you know, make a business out of it. So I set out to do all three. So in order to, to be legitimate, you know, especially in this world, you've got to have a resume, you've got to have receipts, right? So that, that means, okay, number one, I got to go out there and play. I've got to know what it is like to feel that feeling when the lights are on and everyone's watching. And every ball counts and every drop counts and every third and every fifth, when every serve return, when everything counts and people are depending on you how you're going to do so. This way, when somebody asks me, I can tell them, I know exactly where you're coming from. And here's my bit of advice, right? So that's the approach I took. I, you know, I said, you know, I'm. I set out to play as much as possible. I got lucky with the pandemic.
The pandemic stopped. And then that allowed me and some friends to, like, literally learn the nuance of pickleball. You have to learn how to play doubles.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: If you look into today's game right now, you've got a lot of tennis players and such. You know, they're trying to speed up the game and make the game faster along with the balls and the paddles.
But if you don't have that nuance down, you're still, you still, you're not gonna get it. You're gonna get a couple of rounds, as you can see. I mean, we just saw this weekend, I was just. I don't even know what happened today, but I. But I know who's in the finals. I know who's, you know, basically, I know the way they play, right. You've gotta learn how to play pickleball. And that's the one thing that I have an advantage over a lot of people, is that I've learned how to play this nuanced game, but it's not over. It's still evolving.
It's still developing.
It's crazy how things are just rapidly. Six months ago, at the beginning of the year, this game was different.
[00:20:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I would agree.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: At the beginning of the year, this game was different.
And now you see a lot of speed ups. Everything is super aggressive, and I'm all for it. I think they're really trying to find a way to, you know, make the game really watchable to the general public. For sure.
[00:20:47] Speaker A: For sure, absolutely.
[00:20:49] Speaker B: So they got to figure out, you know, a format that's really going to work for them. I'm just happy to see that there's real money into, in it now. You know, there's real money behind it. There's, you know, there's real sponsors. Right. So that's good. So that, that's phase one. So, you know, getting good, you know, playing tournaments. You know, my very first tournament, I think, was Santa Barbara opened, and I played four, five, lost to Jay, we lost to Gabe Joseph and Scott Crandall.
You take your beatings, you go home, you learn, you keep drilling and you start playing. That was a 4.5 tournament, okay? So I'm like, I gotta win a four, five before I go to 5.0. So go to fast forward to the plaza in Las Vegas. That's where they were playing pickleball on the roof.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I remember seeing shots of it.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: Yeah. So total blast, a lot of fun. Play that, win that, actually lose in the finals of that one, come back in the fall, win that. So then that's it. I'm done with four or five. So then the next battle is, okay, let's start playing 50 s. So I pick up Natalie Bagby along the way. She's local to me. And I told Natalie Bagby, I said, you are going to be great. And I said, you will be good very soon. So just, you know, come on, let's go, let's train. And her and I trained her and I teamed up. We never lost in the 50 s and we played that for about a year and then we played senior pro.
And then what happens in senior pro is whoever the better partner is gets the better, the next set of better partners. So as we can see, you know, history's already shown, you know, Natalie's out there still on the podium and I'm not, you know, we played senior pro, we did okay, but, you know, the top guys, like, looking at her like, oh, yeah, you know, I'm going to win with her, you know, and they swooped in, you know, the rakes, the Daves, the Danes, you know, they, they went in and, you know, and took her, you know, and even Scott, you know, took her and got trophies, you know, got medals. So, so, but I'm very happy to be a part of that. I'm happy to be a part of, of Beth Bellamy, you know, getting in and getting started and, and, you know, she was a beast from the beginning and take long. I know, I remember she played. She didn't even have a partner for, for Bobby Riggs, it was an app in San Diego. She didn't have a partner. Rick lost his partner. Rick says, rick picks up Beth and the rest is history. They win, they don't win, they don't lose another tournament that whole year, you know, so, so that's it. So then, you know, I've been playing senior pro for a couple, a few years now. I still have, I still have a family and a wife of 26 years and a life. And a life. So, you know, the touring life is just not for me, but I still like to be competitive. I still play.
I play a lot, quite often. I play high level. I play with a lot of young kids, you know, and I'm coaching a lot of the, hopefully the future of pickleball. So that was it. So I, you know, that was the second, you know, second phase was getting good, getting competitive, and I've done that. And the third phase for me was, you know, the business side of it was Santa Monica pickleball. I live in Santa Monica. I've been here since 2006.
Like I said, I've been part of this community, part of the tennis community since I. Since I arrived.
One of my good friends and my business partner, John Nieder, he started, he was working. He's a duke coach. He coached tennis at Duke. And he came out to California to coach a litany of high level players, some pros. And he was head of a program out here in the Palisades. He and I met, we were really cool with each other. I was more of a tennis player before I was teaching at the time. And in 2010, I went off. I basically had a Jerry Maguire moment and kind of quit my job. And a friend of mine helped me get started teaching tennis. She said, you know, you're wasted talent, you know, just being behind a desk and you should be out there. And I said, I agreed with her at that time. I left, and at the same time, my buddy John, he had splintered off, and he went to start the Santa Monica tennis Center, which was one tennis court.
And he set out to, you know, to be the best with one tennis court around. And, well, almost 13 years later, you know, he was still out there thriving. You know, he figured out programming. He figured out the right amount of people to be on the courts and how to fill the courts. And then he started a small retail part of it. So 2019, I already started thinking. I started thinking about, like, wow, like, I need to start getting on the move with this and maybe get going with a facility, right? And the facility that we have now. Santa Monica Pickleball was the perfect facility for me. I was like, oh, man, John, I'm like, you have the perfect facility. It's one tennis court. It can be turned into four pickleball courts, and then it's a jewel. And this is 2019. And he's like, yeah, you know, yeah, maybe we should, you know, let's. Let's talk, you know, and he's kind of, you know, tepidly following me on instagram, and he's watching the journey, and, and we get to close. We get to 2020 right in the beginning, and we have breakfast, and we always used to do check in breakfast for years, him and I, and we just. Okay, let's check. Let's see. And we're like, hey, I think we should get down and do. And do something and partner up. And he's like, all right, I think we should. You know, and then Covid.
Covid hits. Boom.
And, you know, Covid hits and shuts everything down. People just kind of ran into their corners and went into survival mode, because in the beginning of COVID nobody knew, you know, what was. What was happening, right? Yeah, for sure. Nobody knew at all, you know, so, you know, we kind of just kind of broke apart. And at that point, I'm just, like, getting into, like, the tournaments and, you know, and I'm really. Tournament.
[00:27:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:39] Speaker B: Right. And I still have a business at home that I, you know, private business that I have with my private clientele that I have to, you know, oversee. So we kind of. We didn't lose contact, but we just kind of shelved it, you know, we put it on the shelf. Fast forward two years later, you know, I'm thriving, you know, now, you know, they're calling me Uncle Julio, and. Which is weird. You were asking me before, like, that's. That's really weird. It's kind of. It's. It's, um. You know, it kind of felt dubious to me. Um, you know, like, why are these. You know, why are people asking to take pictures of me? I'm like, I'm terrible, you know? And people wanted, you know, take a picture with me. People want to talk to me. People, you know, just come up to me in general randomly, you know, Miami airport just. It's crazy. So it was kind of awkward, but it was kind of cool, too, you know, it was fun. It was fun to see, like, my kids, my daughter roll her eyes for the first person just randomly, you know? But then, like, after it happened a few times, she was like, holy cow, this.
She put a little respect on me. Then after that, you know, so.
So, you know, 2022, John and I start talking, and he's like, man, I don't know, pickleball. He's like, yeah, it looks. You know, it looks really good. Like, he's like, you really believe in it. And I sent him. I said to him, I said, come to memorial, which is the local park at Santa Monica, which, like, I said, it's 100 to 200 people in a day, easily in the morning, I'm like, just come find me. And I'm over there at memorial, and I'm just doing a. I call it community service. I'm just playing some rec games, and I'm like, just find me. And he walks into the gate. There's only one way in, one way out. He walks in, I see him. He, he can't find me. I let him sit there for about ten minutes. He cannot find me. There's so many people there. Yeah. So I walk, I run up to him, and I'm like, yo, pick your mouth up off the ground. And he's like, are you serious? He's like, this doesn't translate on, on the, on the, on the videos because, you know, I post. Almost sold all the time, right? Like, here it is, another day at Memorial here. This is what we're doing, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, he just doesn't translate until you come and see it. And then I said, are we going to do something?
I said, we're going to do something, or what? And he said, we're going to do. So he's like, we're in. So, you know, just, just when that happened, the retail spot next door had just opened up. They had moved out. And he's like, I want to go big with retail, you know? And I said, I think you should. He's like, there's nobody that's doing it. You know, everything are, things are flying. You know, he started to, you know, he started to buy a couple of paddles in the tennis shop, and that, that was working. So he's like, I have a vision. I want to just blow this thing open. And I said, all right. We just have to make this thing like a big wall and make, make sure people just, every time they walk in, they just go, wow.
[00:30:42] Speaker A: Yeah, a wall of paddles.
[00:30:44] Speaker B: A wall of paddles, man. And that's what we have, man. We have the wow factor, man. I'm leaving in an hour to go over there. I'd show you, but I could always send you some photos.
[00:30:54] Speaker A: Yeah, we can put them in.
[00:30:55] Speaker B: You could always follow coach Julio or Santa Monica Pickleball.
But we have a wow. We have every freaking paddle that you can think of. I mean, there's a few outliers that we don't care, and we're anchored by some of the big brands that are out there. And like I said, we just wowed the whole community. So people come from far and near. We have people from all over the world that come in specifically to see the shop, to see the courts.
We started with a combination of tennis and pickleball, because we just couldn't throw people out in the street. And we needed to figure out programming and see how things were going to work. We started working around the tennis because John already had proven tennis going. And listen, the handwriting was on the wall. I told him, I said, it's not four x, it's more like ten x.
And he's like, I hear you. I'm telling you, man, we, we opened up.
We opened up. We were selling. This is when the Invicta pro was, just came out. Tyson was, was, you know, just had the Mohawk and, you know, he was, he was really on top of it right then. And people were coming in and buying for them at a clip. Wow. So we put a little mini court inside the. Inside the shop. So we have a dink court.
So, you know, like, look, you need to feel things. You need to, you know, you need to. With a paddle. Paddle is a very personal thing, you know, and I understand, you know, I understand the online, but you need to feel it, you know, I agree. We demo every paddle, you know, every paddle you can demo. We have a. Excuse me. We have a thriving demo business, and that comes off the price of, you know, what you purchase.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: Right.
[00:32:50] Speaker B: And, and that's a. That's it. So, you know, we've, we've done very well. We're very happy, you know, with where we've come, you know, fast forward. We. We no longer have tennis. It's just dedicated, beautiful pickleball courts.
[00:33:06] Speaker A: Just like Bobby Riggs went all ten pickleball.
[00:33:08] Speaker B: Well, absolutely. I mean, I remember. I saw the evolution, you know, I remember just Bobby Riggs having mostly tennis courts, just. And then it was like eight pickleball courts and then twelve pickleball courts and 16 then, you know, when I went to a tournament, there was one tennis court there and then the rest was pickleball. And now they've, you know, they've turned into a beautiful facility.
[00:33:30] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So, obviously, you know, there's this evolution. We're in the. We're still in the very early stages of at least of what I would call the modern version of the game. Obviously, it's been around since the mid sixties, you know, and PE departments and ymcas carried it for a very long time. Kept it actually in the minds of a lot of people because they still come across people that hadn't played the game in 25 years. Like, I played this in PE and they remember this game and now they like, oh, my God, it's huge. So that being said, we talked before we came on the air. There's a brand new pickleball documentary out called dream a pickleball story, which I'm in.
[00:34:17] Speaker B: I didn't even know that. That was great. Great.
[00:34:20] Speaker A: So thank you. But over two years, I spent sort of commenting on the pro pickleball scene. And you've lived it and you've met all these people, and you've met the people who are at the very beginning of the pro game, and then you see the film and obviously you've been involved with MLP as a coach with the squeeze, what was going through your head? Because I know when I was watching it and I had been involved in it at a different level than you because you lived it. I was in it where I was watching it since 2021 constantly. And then to see it on screen, I was somewhat like, what is happening? Because there is so much money being thrown at this sport right now. There are so many players to be. And by the way, it's not an easy story to tell.
There's so many moving parts.
[00:35:16] Speaker B: You did a great job. Job, man. I'm telling you, you are a storyteller, man.
[00:35:19] Speaker A: Thank you.
The film ended with it still going on as we all know. It would have probably been better as a docuseries, but that's another story. So talk about when you watch this film and you see this, what are some of your reactions? Because, you know, a lot of these people, you know, probably a lot of little inside things that we all don't know, you know, the personalities a little better. First of all, like, what did you think of seeing that on film for, like, the rest of the world to kind of eventually see it once it lands where it lands?
[00:35:51] Speaker B: Well, I could say this, like, for about, I don't know, maybe about 30 to 40 people. They're really going to be like, wow, this is pretty cool in the sense, like. Cause they're all in it, but it's kind of like a reunion video.
And then you're like, oh, my God, I forgot all about that. And I forgot all about her or him.
So there's going to be a bunch of people going to be like, oh, my God, it's just like. But I mean, I thought it was a fascinating, fascinating tell. And like I said again, on the record, I thought you did a fantastic job and you definitely made the movie. There were definitely some stars. Ryan Sherry was a star.
[00:36:34] Speaker A: Ryan Sherry is a star, but Ryan.
[00:36:37] Speaker B: Sherry is a star.
And this documentary actually shows that he had his hand in a lot of the beginnings of connecting.
He wasn't out there, like, painting lines and, you know, but he was out there connecting these people, you know, to make this a legitimate sport, you know, and that's where he needs his. His recognition. But I remember I was at the very first PPA in Mesa. I was there with Gabriel Joseph, and, you know, he was just kind of up and coming. And, you know, Ben was the man. Ben was beating Hal Yates at this point. So it was like, Ben. So it was, first it was Kyle, then Ben, then it was Ben, then Kyle. And I remember how. How much, like, we were so excited to have, you know, Gabe there. And we were like, Gabe, you know, Gabe, you know, if you have your chance against Kyle, you got to take it. You got to take it. And he beat Kyle in three. It was, like, the best thing. And I remember watching Ben over in the corner, and he was watching Gabe, you know, because Gabe was like the new kid that came on. You know, he was looking, but me, and he. He handled Gabe no problem. Problem.
[00:37:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:47] Speaker B: Continues. Yeah, but, but that. That was the beginning of that. You know, Matt and Lucy were, you know, on the top.
[00:37:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:57] Speaker B: You know, Stone. Adam Stone was playing, you know, Adam Stone, who we all hear on the, you know, on the.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:04] Speaker B: You know, even Dave Fleming was playing these. These people that you, you listen to, they're all. They were playing. So, like, that very first tournament was. Was super cool, and, like, that was, like, the journey. And then from then on, like, every time you go to a pro practice, you know, it's. You're hearing the discussion of the business of pickleball, you know, and definitely, definitely have some insight that I have to keep with me. Sure.
You guys in the movie did a fantastic job of kind of chronicling, like, what was going on.
When I love, I love. There was a few scenes I loved. I loved the war room scene.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: I don't want it for. Yeah, that was really cool.
[00:38:48] Speaker B: You know, that was really great. And I just love the way that Ashley underwood just kind of, like, just flipped the story back and forth. And the way you kind of jumped in and was telling the story was just fantastic, dude, I love it. And I love the yurt, man. And we gotta do something about maybe making those courts a little nicer. And then I'll.
[00:39:09] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. No kidding. The world's worst pickleball court. I mean, the yurt is probably what got me the gig ultimately. Remember, I took a meeting with Ashley and some people, and I was in the yurt, and they go, are you in the yurt? And I said, yeah, and I turned my phone around and I did this, and then I came back and they're all like, oh.
So it was a contrast. I think ultimately what it was, you have these billionaires and all these celebrities talking about throwing money in this game, and then let's cut to the hippies sitting in a tent.
[00:39:39] Speaker B: Awesome. It's so good.
[00:39:40] Speaker A: Playing his bases, smoking a pipe.
[00:39:44] Speaker B: So good. It was so wholesome. And you know what? That you kind of bring the roots of pickleball back, because what's happening is, you know, it's, you know, and you'll hear it. Like a lot of the bloggers, they talk about big pickle now. That's the new term, right? And it's getting like that, man. And I don't want to see that happen either. You know, when I played the tournaments in the beginning, like, you play a tournament, whether pro or amateur, you would still play afterwards. You like, you go and slap paddles and then go find wreck games, go and play, you know, and. And that doesn't happen anymore. You know, people are, you know, you know, people going off to their own corners, to their trainers, to their buses to the right, whatever, to their hotel. Hotel rooms or their separate freaking lounges, you know, and that's kind of lost in pickle, you know, that I don't really like to see, you know, I like to see, like, that whole community kind of thing.
[00:40:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's kind of what happens. I, you know, I played beach volleyball for years, and in the beginning, we were sitting, we were, you know, we were all around championship court with our coolers and our beach chairs, right. And then, you know, ten years later, we were sectioned off in, you know, bleacher seats, 20 yards from the actual court. And it was just a different, a different thing in a different vibe. I'm a little saddened that I sort of missed what you got to see a little bit, you know, in that era of, you know, 2018 and somewhere in there, because it would have reminded me of what was going on back when I was playing, you know, volleyball in the late eighties, early nineties. And I love that vibe in that community. I think what we do see a little bit of that is still at the senior pro level because y'all just really sort of, you got a pretty cool community. Whether you're playing the senior pro tour, the app, NPL, or a PPA event, if you follow instagram or to all the socials like I do, you guys are playing really high level ball. But at the end of the day, you're hanging out and you're chilling and you know each other other and you're having a good time. And I think that's the part I really enjoy about covering at least senior pros.
[00:41:49] Speaker B: Dude, that was a great segue into I'm going to steal that.
[00:41:55] Speaker A: We got to hang out more.
[00:41:56] Speaker B: Definitely.
Yeah. Listen, NPL, senior Pickleball, there is a world and it exists and it's very good.
The thing I think about pickleball, especially with seniors and the senior pros, everyone has a body of work. Everyone has a body of work. And you're right about the community.
It's still a tighter knit community, definitely, in all aspects. I know an app.
I played Miami Open in the beginning of the year and it was one of my best tournaments. It really, really, really was. It really. The community was really great. Ken does a great job.
You know, he takes care of the pros and, you know, that was one of the things I hated about some of the. I'm not even going to go into bashing people, but I don't, you know, I didn't like playing some of the tournaments because you're taking my pro money, but you don't make me feel like a pro.
[00:42:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:59] Speaker B: You know.
[00:43:00] Speaker A: Right. And I think that's the biggest thing. Being treated like a professional is a big deal, and I've got to see that up close a few times, which is really cool because you're right. People have a body at work, not only in pickleball, but in their lives.
They've been high end. Professionals have achieved amazing things and, you know, and to be treated in a way that you're appreciative of them to, you know, obviously contribute to whatever organization that you're trying to establish. So that's what I was enjoying.
[00:43:30] Speaker B: So. And that's, you know, listen, that was the big thing with NPL and is, you know, unfortunately, I just couldn't play this year. Year just. It just couldn't work for me. I could tell you that last year I had a fantastic time. It was the. It was. It was the best format that I had played in a long time. There was so much camaraderie. There was great competition, you know, and I got treated like a professional.
[00:43:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the biggest thing, I think.
[00:43:58] Speaker B: And that feeling, you know, really went a long way.
[00:44:02] Speaker A: Yeah. It just does, you know, because you are a professional.
[00:44:06] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:44:07] Speaker A: You should rightly be treated as one because that's what you are.
[00:44:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Just saying, you know, so kudos to, you know, Beth Bellamy, kudos to Rick and Michael, for putting the league together. You know, I support the league and hopefully maybe in the future, you know, I can get back into playing.
I think I'm still good enough.
[00:44:28] Speaker A: Oh, you're good enough.
I gotta get down by you so I can get good enough.
[00:44:34] Speaker B: Definitely. You're more than welcome to come. You know, we have a lot of. We're just lucky to be in an area where a lot of people are passing through also, so they want to come and check it out and, you know, we're always, God, there's so many players that we, you know, that come through here right now. Most recently Roscoe Bellamy, who's a move, you know, he's been playing with us and now he plays more out by his house, out in the valley. He's a beast and he's a beast. He's always been a beast. I've known him since he was about eight or nine years old.
I've always been a big fan of his. So when he went to UCLA, I was really, really, really happy for him and he was on the top of his game, you know, so I really hope that it could happen for him here. He's young enough and he has the talent and he has the IQ and he's got the genetics. So hopefully, you know, we'll see.
[00:45:27] Speaker A: How do you drop a ball in the kitchen on a guy that's that long and athletic?
[00:45:30] Speaker B: It's very hard, man. Just expect it's coming back. Especially with these paddles, man.
[00:45:35] Speaker A: Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, so let's just touch on it right before we get out of here. You know, we don't have to go super in depth because we can talk another time, which I'd like to because there's plenty of other things for us to talk about. But obviously I review paddles and I've been reviewing paddles about 18 months. My channel's been around about two and a half years, but it's changed significantly just in the last six months. Obviously gen three is controversial now, but, you know, once we started going thermal form, unibody foam injection, raw carbon fiber, now Kevlar's hot again. Somebody just woven some titanium.
Still the wild west, isn't it?
[00:46:18] Speaker B: I mean, yes, yes, yes, yes. And again, like, listen, they're trying to figure out a format that's going to translate into eyeballs.
[00:46:31] Speaker A: So, you know, and balancing that line.
[00:46:34] Speaker B: It'S, it's a balance, you know, when I, when I walk into or I turn on the tv and I watch pickleball and I see like Ben and Colin and, you know, I watch them intently. Yeah, intensely. Excuse me. You know, and I watch them, and I'm watching JW and Dylan and I'm watching their technique, and I could see them, they're dinking for 30, 40 balls.
And to me, that's cool.
[00:47:03] Speaker A: I love it, too, but most people don't.
[00:47:05] Speaker B: But nobody's going to turn that on.
[00:47:07] Speaker A: Nobody's going to turn that on and.
[00:47:09] Speaker B: Say, oh, wow, look at that. It's just not going to happen. You turn the tv on, you want to see somebody dunk? You want to see somebody catch the football. You want to see somebody score a goal.
You've got to see some of the action. The hands battles are great.
I would like to have pickleball in a place where you had multiple hand battles where the ball's going back more than one or two times. So bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, reset, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.
That kind of tempo. And I don't know how to find that. I don't. You know, I guess they're experimenting and trying to find that. You know, that's where you see the most. You see the most fun and the most engagement. You know, I also, you know, I don't want to get into it too much, and we could talk about another time. I just think. I just really quickly. Some of it's just boring. I think the way they announce it, the way it's approached, and I don't think it's pickleball. Pickleball's like, you know, like you're in the backyard, you got a cooler, you're in the sideway, you're you. You know, and they homogenizing it too much, man. They already.
[00:48:18] Speaker A: It would be cool to have street ball like, you know, let's see. Like they did with some of the three on three stuff in basketball. Yeah, you put them in the streets, you line them all up, and you get pros playing. Pros would come down to Rutgers park and play, you know, whatever it is. But you have that sort of element where, you know, Ben Jon shows up to this sort of street tournament and he, you know, what we did in volleyball is we just signed up, and then they would sign us up with somebody, and you'd have this huge tournament, but it would be. It would have that atmosphere like you're talking about sort of back to the old throwback days where we were bringing our lawn chairs and our coolers and we're celebrating the sport. Maybe that's what we need, a little tour like that.
[00:48:54] Speaker B: You've got to well, I also think that they're spread out, and, you know, it's spread out too thin. This is a zillion tournaments.
[00:49:01] Speaker A: Right.
[00:49:02] Speaker B: And the reason for that is because it's a money maker, and if they had a chance to not have amateurs who bring in a big chunk of the revenue, they would. But that they need them. So they need the amateurs because the amateurs love it. They're the amateurs of hooked. So they'll play on anything, you know. Yeah, it doesn't matter. You know, they just slap some tape. Okay, great. You know, $150.
Here's my 300. For two. Yeah. For two categories.
[00:49:29] Speaker A: One, two. Barbecue.
[00:49:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And then that's. And that's it. And call it a day.
[00:49:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:34] Speaker B: So, I don't know.
[00:49:36] Speaker A: Maybe it's the ball.
[00:49:37] Speaker B: Probably progress.
[00:49:38] Speaker A: If we can. Yeah. If we can mush the ball, little paddles could just be do what they.
[00:49:41] Speaker B: Want, but, yeah, it could be so. I mean, like, this Vulcan ball is crazy. Again, we've got multiple things we could talk about.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
And we'll do it, because I think this has been a very fascinating conversation, because you do have a lot of inside knowledge, and you've been there, you know, since the beginning for a lot of us who have just gotten to this point, you know, a lot of the history at the beginning of the tournament and when things really started to explode. So, yeah, I'd love to come back and revisit some of this stuff maybe in the fall, because definitely, obviously, it'll all change again.
[00:50:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Let's. Let's see if MLP makes it through the whole year, and then we can have a talk.
[00:50:23] Speaker A: Right? Exactly.
[00:50:23] Speaker B: I'm hoping it's a great format.
[00:50:25] Speaker A: I love it, too, but I agree. I think I do. I'll say this part again. I've said this in multiple podcasts. I do think the open pros players and people that are running things could learn a lot from the senior pros. I do.
[00:50:39] Speaker B: 100%.
[00:50:40] Speaker A: Yeah. I think that's an untapped resource of just professional knowledge outside of even pickleball, like, how to make something successful and make people want to feel wanted is, like, two things that I see that senior pros are doing that I don't see necessarily consistently at the open.
[00:50:57] Speaker B: So. No, no. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. But, you know, people don't want to hear from the old people. That's what it is.
[00:51:04] Speaker A: They don't. They don't.
[00:51:05] Speaker B: They don't want to hear from the old people.
[00:51:09] Speaker A: All right, man. Hey, julio. Rivera. He's obviously, he's santa monica pickleball center. He's the director of pickleball. He's an og. He is. He's doing. Yeah. He's surrounded by really ornate pillows, and I.
[00:51:24] Speaker B: This is just my lounge. Yeah, yeah.
[00:51:26] Speaker A: Just a lot of fun. And I really appreciate you taking the time. I'm finally glad we hooked up, and we will definitely do it again because it's one of my favorite conversations I've had on this channel.
[00:51:35] Speaker B: So definitely listen. When they pick up this movie, we'll see each other again.
[00:51:39] Speaker A: That's right. And, yeah, maybe me, you, and ashley can go have coffee and talk about it.
[00:51:44] Speaker B: Definitely. We'll bring sam, doug, wes, and the.
[00:51:47] Speaker A: Rest of the game, the whole crew.
All right, julio. I appreciate it, man.
[00:51:51] Speaker B: All right, man. Take care, man. Thank you.
[00:51:52] Speaker A: Hope you enjoyed our conversation with julio. I think we will get back to this in the fall because there's a lot to talk about with paddles and balls and the pro game and the amateur game all continuing to evolve and develop. All right, folks, you know what to do at the end of the day. Ha ha. Let's pickle.
