Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, everybody. Slieve senior Pickleball report is brought to you by TNC Network. Get ready for an exciting episode of people of Pickleball with me, Mike Slieva. We're about to dive deep into conversations with influential figures from the world of Pickleball.
So let's get it going.
This week in our people of Pickleball episode, we speak with Chris Chu. Basically, he started something I think is going to be and can be revolutionary. He has a product that we're going to show you that really kind of works on your muscle memory for hitting drops and dinks, and you don't need a partner. Pretty cool. He is the owner and founder of Boss Pickleball. But before we get to that, if you like this content, consider subscribing to the channel all the links in the description below for tons of discounts. Check out our newsletter as well and subscribe to that. Let's get to that conversation with Chris.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: From Boss Pickleball. Hey, Chris. Welcome to the Senior Pickleball Report.
[00:01:06] Speaker C: Thanks. It's a pleasure to be here. Very happy.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Yeah. So you, you and I met, obviously, picklecon in Kansas City in early August, and we were on a panel together about drilling, which you got to sub in. And, you know, you, you got to show your product, which we'll talk about in a little while here. But before we get into all of that, obviously you had to get into the sport somehow and discover pickleball in your own life. So maybe take us through a little bit of the background of how kind of pickleball in this goofy whipple ball sport, you know, started to get into your life because it's one thing to obviously play it, it's another thing to develop a product. So how did it begin for you?
[00:01:46] Speaker C: Well, I noticed some seniors hitting the ball around my local gym and it looked like a lot of fun. So I just, you know, went out there and I got tagged by a bunch of, you know, ladies.
And I go, this is intriguing. And then they out dink me. I couldn't dink at all. So I'm going, I need to practice. And I've always been into practice, like ball sports. I've used tennis trainers and such and actually developed other trainers in my garage. And I thought, I'm going to just play around with the pickleball. And then kind of stumbled across this idea of having a stretchy portion of the string and then a non stretchy portion of the string. So we got on the product, we got a stretchy part, and then we got this clear, 30 pound test that doesn't stretch, and it allows this ball to drop real naturally. That's all we got.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: It's actually pretty cool. So we'll talk a little bit more about the details of how it works and stuff. But did you have. Obviously, you talked a little bit about tennis. You've had a tennis or a racket sport background before you got into pickleball?
[00:03:06] Speaker C: Yeah, nothing major. I used to play in high school and played all the way after that. And, you know, I think a lot of these racket sports require a lot of repetition, at least for me.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: They do, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we were at picklecon, and you were a sub on the drilling panel, and you were the only person there that had something to demo, which was really cool.
And, you know, I saw it, and I saw you take it out of the bag. I'm like, oh, is this like some other things I've seen? But then once you started using it and the ball would just do this natural flight and bounce and come back, I was like, oh, this is different. And then obviously, I went to your booth afterwards, and you had one for dinking, and you had one, you have a drop trainer as well, which has a longer tether and a longer nylon on it, and you can practice your drops. So it took me a couple swings to get it, and I think that's just kind of the natural learning curve for some folks. They want to just whack it hard and it comes flying back. So talk about getting folks to use it and sort of some of the reactions that you've had, because I was walking around, this is near the end of pimple con when I ran into you, but then all of a sudden, I started to see them everywhere. Like, people had them in their bags and people were doing things. So talk about, you know, your engagement with people that are potential customers.
[00:04:30] Speaker C: Well, you bring up a great point. I mean, I sometimes I forget that there is a learning curve associated with using a tethered training tool. I mean, you must succumb to the string. The chord is, you know, there's some physics at play, and I forget that there is a learning curve, and it will take even a pro. I mean, believe it or not, it'll take even a pro a little while to get tuned in where, you know, you're not, where you're using an actual dink or drop shot and then guiding it back once it reached full extension. There is a cadence that needs to be kind of picked up before you'll be able to really you know, benefit and extract all the good practice swings from this device. But once you get it, and it doesn't take extremely long, once you get it, you'll get many hours of good practice in. But we had a.
It was a lot of fun at Picklecon.
We had all of our neighbors hitting pickle that was right next door. They were hitting it too. And, you know, the whole block was doing it. It's very engaging.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: Yeah, it is a very engaging product. And like you said, you need a certain cadence, just like you do when you're danking or you're dropping. You need some rhythm, and you kind of get into your rhythm of the game. And once I. What I like about it is I can do it in a house, I can do it in a garage, I can do it in a driveway. You name it, you got enough space for the ball to kind of make its distance and then drop and you're off and running.
[00:06:05] Speaker C: Can you do it in a yurt?
[00:06:08] Speaker B: I can if I clear some of the crap I have in my yard, because if I have a space, Chris, I fill it with shit.
So I have to move stuff around a little bit to be off grid doing this. But yeah, it would fit. My yurt is 19ft in diameter, so there's plenty of space if I start moving all the crap I have piled up in it. Great question.
[00:06:32] Speaker C: Do you think you're hitting any yurt?
[00:06:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I'm going to have to do that. Probably do it for the demo portion of when I do a little review on the product itself as well. So I've been playing with it since I got back from Picklecon, and that's a couple weeks now. And I've used it daily. I use both. And I love it. I love that I can do forehands. I love that I can do backhands. And I love that I can change, obviously, the distance if I want to have a something that goes a little further and practice my drops.
So when you developed it, like, what was the idea? Were you going to.
How did it come to fruition? Because there's a couple things here that have to happen. Obviously, you have the piece of elastic, which has to go around the paddle. Then you have to determine the distance, obviously, of the piece. That's the stretchy piece. And then obviously the nylon as well. Talk about the process. And then obviously attaching it to a ball.
[00:07:31] Speaker C: Jeez, I can't even go over how many iterations we had at different lengths and everything else. I mean, we have a drive trainer that never went out to market because the strings so long, you spend a lot of time untangling yourself. So, I mean, this really lent itself to the shorter shot because of the problems that the court would, would bring up. And so, yeah, I can't explain the amount of iterations, and, oh, I'm gonna try shortening the, you know, the cord.
Tried all sorts of different types of materials, and then just kind of thought, well, I wish it would drop. And that's where we came with the non stretchy part, which is the patent pending part of the, of the device.
So there's plenty of them that have the elastic, and the elastic just does that, and when it snaps back that fast, you don't have time, and it's not realistic to how play is. So we, you know, we stumbled across a, I guess a length for each, each elastic and inelastic chord that kind of optimize realistic ball play.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Okay, so from the moment of like, oh, I think I'm going to try this to the moment it hits market. How long are we talking here?
[00:09:00] Speaker C: I had, you know, a year and a half. It's kind of crazy it took that long. But if you look at my, you know, my work box, I have a big container I keep all my fails in. It looks like your yurt. It's a mess.
Sorry about that. I couldn't resist.
[00:09:21] Speaker B: No, it's actually very accurate.
I just have a bunch of paddles laying around and stuff like that because I have to do reviews.
People might look at this because I brought it out to the courts. I play on, and people are like, oh, this is pretty cool. Couldn't you just make one of these? They go, listen, isn't as easy as you think. It looks like it's simple, and it looks like it's something you could just do. But then when you try to do something like this, I think you'll find out probably what Chris found out is like, there are little tiny things that you don't consider. Like, you know, how do you attach it to the ball? How do you attach it to the ball so it doesn't tangle? How do you know all these little things that you had to kind of trial and error from that? It looks like a very basic product, but at the end of the day, to get it to work the way it does, and it works fabulous.
It takes a lot of, obviously, trial and error.
[00:10:12] Speaker C: It took a lot of trial and error. And, you know, yeah, you could make this, but it's 1990, it's $20, and it's going to take a long time.
The nice thing about it, it's really simple. It is really simple.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: Yeah. So where can folks, where can they find it out there? Obviously, I find it on your website. Can they find it in other places in retail?
[00:10:39] Speaker C: Well, they can go right to my site, thanks for asking, which is bospickle.com, boss. The word pickle, that's probably the best spot because my site contains videos on how to use it, tips, drills, all that sort of thing. And actually we have a PPR certified senior Pro 5.0 plus player and he's also a, he's also a coach as well. And he goes over, he actually uses our device to train his advanced intermediate and his beginner students and he uses it to warm up before his matches. And that's Rob Gray and he does a number of good videos for us. So that's another good reason to go to the site. Of course, we're on Amazon. We're at Shields as well.
[00:11:33] Speaker B: And while you're at Seals, that's huge.
[00:11:38] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:39] Speaker B: Wow. And we're fantastic.
[00:11:41] Speaker C: You know, we're adding new retailers every month.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, you talked about coaches using it. Obviously, I, you know, I talked to a ton of coaches on this channel because that's who I interview is people who play, people who play professionally, people who coach clinics, do campsite. And I agree from just using it, I would consider myself to be an intermediate player. I think it's a great thing for a beginner to use. And I could totally see this going all the way to advanced because it's just really kind of getting your groove, like your golf swing, finding that groove, finding that cadence, finding that rhythm. And if your partner's not there and they're putting their shoes on or something and you're waiting around, it's a great way to start to get your blood flowing and get going and move around. And you can move with it, too. That's what I like. You can go backhand, the forehand and you can move your feet. And it's really, as far as the training devices that I've just kind of gleaned over and got to use a little bit. This is by far the most useful thing I've used, and it's not even close, actually, because it works.
It works all the time. And like you said, once you get your cadence down, you can get a lot of benefit and you can literally go as long as you want, as long as you're, you know, for me, all of a sudden my back starts to get tired after a while, but I can go as long as I.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: Want with it, so.
[00:13:07] Speaker C: Yeah, well, thanks. I couldn't have said all of that any better than what you just did. You know, I'm an enthusiast. I'm also, you know, someone that wants to have a practice device mimic as closely as possible what I'm going to need when I get out on the court. Now, obviously, if you can find a partner that will hit 500 shots back to you, that's better. Okay. Yeah, but we don't always have that. And it's like you get out there on the court and, you know, you start hitting a little bit here and then pretty soon it's like, oh, let's play. And you got maybe 1015 drop, drop and, you know, ding shots in and then you're roped into playing, which is really super fun.
So I think there's a spot for it. There's a niche for it in the game.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. You bring up a good point. It's not always easy to find someone that can consistently hit you. Those 500 jinx, they're hitting them in the net, they're hitting them long. Whatever they're doing, this comes back every time. Depending on where you want to put it out there, the angle you're creating with it, it'll come back to a different spot if you want to move yourself around. And that's what I enjoy about it. I don't have to get somebody coerced somebody to go out and hit a ton of dinks with me and then, you know, they may hit 500, but I'm not going to get 500. And this will actually give me the repetition which I desperately need, like most of us probably do. Where do you see, I mean, like, you know, obviously you've been to picklecon. What else do you want to do with the product? You kind of trying to break into some clubs. You're trying to get it to obviously get more and more people's hands, I would think specifically people that can, you know, have access to people that can coach, you know, players and things like that.
[00:14:57] Speaker C: Well, that's a great question. I think.
I think with the nature of the device, I think what I want to work on is getting it in the hands of coaches and figuring out a way to set up programs with coaches so that they can progress their players.
My coach says he can. He can progress and 50% to 70% faster when they, when they drill with this device. And so then he can add even more value strategically and with more advanced skills. And you know, how to play and how. How to be in the correct positions because he's built a strong foundation of thinking and dropping.
I think that's where I want to go with it next because I think that is.
I think that's where I need to take this thing next.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I would agree. I think you bring up something vital here that obviously, if people could do the work with this and then show up to camps in clinics, or if they go to a camp or clinic, they learn a technique, take it home, work on it with the trainer, and then obviously, when they do something else, if they go to another camp, they've already got that groundwork. And like you said, they can work on the coach, can work on some other things, maybe some strategy, because now they have the repetition, they have the muscle memory, they have the footwork, and they can do all of that on their own without anybody else. And they can do it in the comfort of their own home or garage or wherever they are.
I think for you, Sky's the limit because obviously there's a ton of people getting certified.
There's a ton of pros who already have camps and clinics.
I think you have a ton of options out there, which is exciting because I think it's a great product and I'm excited to see it in the hands of other people. And I think if I show up to Picklecon next year, which again is in Kansas City, from what I understand, I hope to see it in more people's hands on the courts.
[00:17:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
Well, I need to mention a couple of things. These are built in Moose Lake, Minnesota, by cottage industry. Yes, Moose Lake by cottage industry.
People that work in the fishing lure industry, so they work at home. And a lot of that business has moved off to Asia. So this is a made in USA product right here in Minnesota, and it's the only training device that is guaranteed to improve your game, Mike, in 30 days. So all we say is at ten minutes, you get 500 dink shots in ten minutes. About 350 to 400 drop shots in ten minutes. And if you do that every day for 30 days, we know your shot is going to improve. And if it doesn't, we'll just. I have a link on my website.
You just go out there and fill in the form and we'll send your money back.
[00:18:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I can't see how you couldn't, because like I said earlier, the consistency of the ball return is up to you, obviously. And again, getting in that rhythm, it seems like it's a can't miss. If you just do it for obviously, like you said, ten minutes a day and getting all those reps day in and day out that you wouldn't normally get because you have to go somewhere, find a net, set a net up. In a lot of cases, find somebody to hit with. Dependent on weather.
To me this is sort of a code breaker of really improving pretty fast in two vital areas. And that is dinking and dropping, which most people at an amateur level actually have trouble with in getting to the next level. That seems to be one of the areas where people need to make that leap to improve. And it's hard to get, like you mentioned way earlier, if you play a couple, you know, rec games and people are just blasting balls at you and you get eight digs in maybe 2 hours and you know, a few drops this way, obviously you get comfortable with the drop. Therefore you feel more comfortable with the drop doing it in a game and dinking in a game. Because now you've made a successful drop and you can move up and now you're in the dinking battle and that's ultimately where we want to be. So I think that's pretty cool.
[00:19:24] Speaker C: Yeah. Another spot on comment. You know, you have to move, you have to, you have to think to move up. You have to drop to move up. And thinking and dropping also helps you move up in your play, your, your playing skill. It'll help you move from three, five to 40, let's say. And I think you're absolutely right. It's a essential skill set that I don't think most people don't get enough practice. I know I don't get enough practice.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: No, I don't either. And I have a ball machine and all that. But I can do so many more consistently, so many more with this.
And that's what's amazing about it. So obviously we talked briefly in the beginning about Picklecon, where you and I meth, the first of its kind, obviously in Kansas City in the civic center. Bunch of courts, like 75 courts to play on different surfaces, 100 4150 vendors, annals, which you and I participated in a pro league, playing tournaments, playing clinics, you name it.
And it's in Kansas City again next year. What are your initial thoughts of how it went and where do you like to see maybe it go?
[00:20:39] Speaker C: Well, like you said, I thought it was a great first run, you know, first initial start. And I'd like to see more of these types of events. It was super fun. I mean, the NLP, just because, I mean, they're really high level players, but they make more mistakes than the pros, and it was actually really entertaining to watch them just passing the ball back and forth. I mean, it scared me, you know, so I thought that was great, and I'd like to see it continue. I think the only thing that probably maybe, you know, that could be, would be the best improvement would not be running a PPA event at the same exact time. So if they could coordinate where they don't happen at the same time, I think that would be a really good thing. But I'd love to see more of these. I thought it was a great event, super fun. And the venue? I thought the venue was perfect.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: I do, too. I think the only thing I would change, besides that's a very valid point, because you have a ton of people going to the PPA, and those people could potentially come to Picklecon, is I would have made, and I don't remember what the price was, but, like, walking in off the street, I would have made that a real small fee just to get people in the door walking through, checking out things, because I think if enough people, you walk through that place, there's enough vendors, enough things going on, whether they're buying lunch or buying the din trainer or something else, they're going to spend money and they're getting access, and obviously they're getting exposed to what the pickleball culture is. I think I would have made it pretty low fee just to come in off the street and walk through the, the civic center and kind of see what's going on for the general public. Those are probably the two things I would have changed.
[00:22:30] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I think the main, the main draw would be the tournament, and also being able, you know, get on a court, play yourself, and then the rest of that is just a lot of good gravy after that.
[00:22:45] Speaker B: Absolutely. And a lot of cool vendors. I mean, they. Did they. I don't know if. Did you make. Did you go to the vendor party?
[00:22:52] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: Unbelievable. I mean, you want to start.
Oh, yeah. You want to start a conference? I was impressed with that start. I mean, beautiful building, obviously, open bar, hors d'oeuvres, a little buffet, a band, jack stock and lid janssen playing pickleball.
And, you know, it was dynamite. I was like, holy cow, they spent some money on this.
[00:23:19] Speaker C: Yeah. That was a good, that was a wonderful. That was a wonderful kickoff. No doubt.
[00:23:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. And those are the perks, I think, of. Yeah. Of being involved. I know there was a few vendors that I deal with, and they were sort of hesitant, year one, to see what it was and what it could be. But I know the few people I followed up with, I'm like, yeah, I think you should go, because if we want something, a, something like this, to hang around, we need people to participate. And b, I think it's just, I think it's got a huge upside, you know, and there's a ton of people. I made a ton of connections just like I have with you.
[00:23:59] Speaker C: Yeah, it was, it was a great party. You know, I didn't know who just paddles was until that. And, you know, they spent, they dropped some, they dropped some dollars on that. And, you know, I appreciate it. I look at them in a very positive light and, yeah, it was a great event, right?
[00:24:17] Speaker B: Absolutely. All right, Chris, before we get you out of here, obviously this sport has, it's been around nearly 60 years, but it has exploded in the last five or six.
Where do you see it going? Because I think we're still in the wild west phase of this. Like, people kind of throwing everything up and seeing what sticks.
Where do you see it going? Where would you like to see it go? I mean, as far as you can talk about anything, if you want to talk about the retail and if you want to talk about the game itself or whatever, but where is this going? This is crazy.
[00:24:55] Speaker C: Well, I think it's still in that heavy growth phase. Wild, Wild West. I think at some point the brand and paddle choices are going to kind of hit a saturation point if it hasn't come close to that top of that roller coaster ride. And I think there'll be some narrowing of choices there, which there's. It feels like thousands of choices right now.
From the training perspective, I think this is in its infancy. I think.
I think as we go, people will say, hey, I want a training device, and actually start looking for that. And I think right now, it's just kind of, it's not as, people aren't as aware that there are training devices out there.
But what I'd like to see it is, I'd like to see it.
I've seen some trends.
You talk about the word faddeen. I was involved with the roller blade industry when that thing went super huge and then crashed in the mid to late nineties.
This doesn't feel the same because of the demographic spread and the skillset. I mean, the roller blade, you had to be fairly coordinated and not a lot of 80 year olds rollerblading. But here the sport has kind of, it's kind of dropped in the age demographic and it's grabbing younger and younger folk and I think that is just going to make it grow even more. And yeah, I guess what I'd like to see is just more awareness of pickleball culture, that it's inclusive, it's community oriented, it's friendly, it's inviting.
I'd like to see that growth.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I would agree. And I think you hit it right on the nose there.
I was a rollerblader and I love doing it, but it's not nearly, nearly accessible as this game is. I have a group that I play in and we have an eleven year old and an 81 year old and they play together, they play against each other and you just don't see that in any really sort of other activities on a level like this.
And I think another thing you touched upon, it's most people that I play with, I think they love the game, but they really love the communal part of it because they show up every week and we know how you doing. It's a small talk between games. It's me showing them the latest and greatest device out there for training and whatever it happens to be. And it's just, it's hard not to smile when you go out on the court because, you know, even if you're not playing, you're sitting around waiting for your game, you're going to have a good time because the people that are drawn to this game just seem to get it on some level about that. This is a, it's a wiffle ball sport, so, hey, you know, we can take it serious, but at the end of the day we're just, we want to hang out, have a good time and, you know, not get hurt.
[00:28:05] Speaker C: Yeah. What other sports can you do with a family and have three generations out there, you know, 100% engage in what they're doing and having fun, right?
[00:28:16] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, before we go, anybody you want to mention thank shout outs to before we let you go and get you out of here.
[00:28:28] Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you for doing this and helping me get the word out.
I really appreciate it, Mike.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I love the product. When I first saw it, I was like, oh, this is interesting. And then I sat and listened to you on the panel, I was like, I like your attitude. You're sort of, you're a little like me. We do the little self deprecation and then you pull out, but you pulled out something that's like you made, which is different than what I do and I'm like. And then when I saw you. I brought my folks by and my sister and my wife and they're all like, this is really cool. And I'm like, it is. And it's a cool guy doing cool things and having fun doing it. And I hope to see you around at other conferences and hopefully again at Picklecon next year.
[00:29:17] Speaker C: Thanks, Mike. And you know, the same to you. You had me when you said I live in a yurt. I'm like, that's a cool dude.
So I can't wait to, I can't wait to see you playing pickleball in your yurt or practicing dinks in your yurt in your, you know, segment upcoming for sure.
[00:29:37] Speaker B: It's actually, maybe that'll be my viral video.
[00:29:40] Speaker C: Maybe.
[00:29:43] Speaker B: All right, Chris from bosspickleball.com, get your Dinkin drop trainers. I'll have links in the description. Obviously you saw some clips while we were talking here of me using it and $20. You can't go wrong, folks. Go to his website, pick it up, watch the videos for different ways to use it. Thanks for joining us, Chris.
[00:30:02] Speaker C: Thanks. My pleasure.
[00:30:04] Speaker A: Hope you enjoyed our interview with Chris. Check out the links in the description below and get yours today because it's a game changer. Alright, folks, at the end of the day, you know what to do.
[00:30:14] Speaker B: Let's pickle.
