Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey everybody, Sleeves. Senior Pickleball Report is brought to you by TNC Network. Get ready for an exciting episode of People of Pickleball with me, Mike Slieva. We're about to dive deep into conversations with influential figures from the world of pickleball.
So let's get it going.
Today in our People of Pickleball episode, we are speaking with Rob Nunnery. Rob plays on the App Tour. He's played on the ppa. He's played mlp. He is involved with utr, the rating system that has come over from tennis to pickleball. We talk all things pickleball, ratings, pro game, amateur game, and everything under the sun.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Pickleball.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: But before that, if you like this content, consider subscribing to the channel. Check out all the links in the description for discounts. Check out our newsletter as well and subscribe. And hey, let's get to that conversation with Rob Nunnery.
[00:00:55] Speaker C: Rob Nuttery, welcome to the Senior Pickleball Report.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: Thank you. Good to be here. I know it's been a, it's been a little bit of a long time coming. I know you said some people are longer than others, but I'm glad to be here. Thanks.
[00:01:07] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Great to have you. And really, you know, there's a ton to talk about with you because, you know, you play on a bunch of different tours and you play obviously MLP at times and you've been touring Europe and Asia and ut, UTRP like I mentioned. But before we get into any of that, let's talk a little bit about how you got into pickleball. You played a very high level college tennis. I know that, but like, talk to me about how the game was introduced to you and a little bit about your athletic background prior to coming into the sport.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Yeah, it was, I don't know if I'd say a very high level tennis background. I did play D1 in college. So it's all relative, right? There's guys pretty high level, there's guys on the tour now that, you know, have been 10 in the world. So it wasn't, I wasn't there but I played college status and was decent.
But So I graduated in 07 from UNC Asheville, small little D1 liberal arts school in Asheville, North Carolina, and did a little coaching after that. But there's about a, you know, I found pickleball in 2019. I graduated in 07. I coached for, call it two years till like 09 and then was out of, was out of sports completely for, you know, that decade and got More into kind of the business side of life and had an advertising business. And through that I would go to some different business conferences and met a lot of people, including Adam Franklin of Franklin Sports who, you know, turned into a, turned into a good buddy. And he mentioned he knew my tennis background and knew that I hadn't played in a long time, but he was just like, hey, yes, this is, this is one of our fastest growing segments. It's been crazy. We follow kind of like industry reports on, you know, what sports are emerging and then they try to jump in there early and, you know, big props to them. They did, they got on it early from, from a company that, you know, isn't really known for pickleball. They're known for how many inflatables they sell from basketballs to soccer balls to footballs.
But he was like, hey, you know, they're, they're obviously big in major league baseball with batting gloves. And he was like, some of our top players that were sponsoring a pickleball are making as much as, you know, some of our baseball players are. It's crazy. And he sent me a paddle and I was living in Austin at the time and I just literally googled pickleball lesson Austin and did a, did a lesson at Austin Tennis center with a guy named Calvin Keeney and got hooked right away. I went home, I literally went home that day and made an Instagram post saying I am going to go pro in the sport. I don't know anything about it yet really, but I had a blast. It seems to translate well. I was like a servant volley or in tennis, even though I'm not huge. I just, I came to the net a lot and played kind of junkie feel tennis, not just like a grinder baseline guy. So I was kind of crafty and I knew it felt like it was. It would translate well to pickleball.
And yeah, from that kind of declaration at the end of 2019, I've been doing pickleball ever since. And super. Yeah, just feel super fortunate to have found it and to be, to be doing work in something that is fun and not sitting behind the desk and doing something else.
[00:04:37] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, in a short five year period, I mean, you hit right before, obviously you started playing right before COVID where, you know, on some levels people would say that was sort of the explosion of the game in 2019. Did you see any of what just happened coming down the pipe? I mean, did you see any of that?
[00:04:58] Speaker B: No, it was quiet. It was really quiet, actually. Um, I knew there were some pro tournaments and stuff.
My very first tournament was actually the very first PPA there ever was in Mesa, Arizona.
So that being my. That being my real first tournament where pros were at, I was. I didn't really know, you know, they didn't really know what they were doing. They were just. It was a dollar test for them. And I was like, okay, so this is all I know. This is. This is what pro pickleball is. But at the time, it wasn't like there wasn't. It didn't feel like this big movement. And Again, this was February 2020, like literally a month. Month before COVID came.
And then Covet hits. And then, you know, the tour shut down. I think the app comes back and has one, like in September or something.
Don't quite remember, but, yeah, it slowed down heavily, but there were still tournaments here and there, and I would try to play as much as I could. And then I think 2021, you know, tournaments came back pretty full force. And, yeah, just been. Been playing ever since. And that's 2021. And 2022 is when it really felt like, okay, there's. There's some serious momentum here. I think end of 21 was maybe the first MLP.
I think that's right. And then that's where. That's where. Yeah, that's where it felt like things were. There's a lot happening. There's. There are a lot of moving parts. People are trying to make moves, doing stuff. And it felt like that was kind of the moment where I felt like, okay, this is. This is not going away.
[00:06:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And it is quite remarkable that, you know, the pro game just starts to kind of peek its head out and Covid hits, and still somehow this game takes off to the level that it's, you know, it's become.
Which speaks volumes to not only the, I guess, the addiction factor that people, when they start playing this game, it just grabs them.
But I think because I play with. I'm not playing football. But the amateur level is. There's still an unbelievable amount of people that have no idea that there's pro pickleball, and they don't care.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: I would say it's the majority. The vast majority.
[00:07:16] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. And I think what's great about that is I don't think the amateur ranks necessarily are dependent upon the success of pro pickleball.
How about the pro scene, though? You think the pro scene on some level is dependent on or dependent on the amateur ranks of B of this game growing and aggressive level?
[00:07:40] Speaker B: Absolutely. I think without the amateur side, that the pro game really struggles to exist. I mean, the people that you have coming to watch watch pro events is mostly the amateur players playing, right? So, yeah, it's.
To me, I think the pro landscape is banking on the participation aspect of the sport leaking into the spectator side of the sport, which is. Which has been not non existent, but pretty damn close to non existent at this point. Not many people are watching, right?
[00:08:15] Speaker C: Yeah. And do you think for me, like, I always tell people, because I interview a lot of senior pros, people are like, oh my God, old people have a lead too.
But then I tell them, go see it in person. And it's the same thing when I went to see MLP in person or any pro events, regardless of the age.
It's incredible. Courtside. It's just ridiculous what people are doing. Even if you know nothing about the game, even if you don't know anything about dinking or shot drops and all that other stuff, the skill level, you can tell the speed of the game and the control of the game.
And I think maybe that's one thing that I think has been highly beneficial to the new battle technology, because obviously you're pushing limits and stuff like that, but the pace of the ball and then to see what people can do with that pace up close in person. You've talked extensively about what can we do to translate that to television. And I love some of the ideas you've come up with over the years. And so where's your head at with that now? Because that's where we are. How do we get people to watch and invest in the pro game to make it a viable sport on tv.
[00:09:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right in respect to. And I've never heard somebody actually that's gone in person to see pro pickleball be like, meh, that's okay. Everybody's like, even, Even to like, you know, And a lot of videographers, right, Photographers that are. That are shooting pickleball for the first time, like, this has happened a lot. They're like, whoa. Like, I, you know, I saw pictures of this because I'm. I was researching it before I came to shoot. I saw some videos. But, man, you guys are like, this is insane. Like, and that's pretty much everybody's reaction when they see it in person is they really. They truly are, like, blown away by the speed, the skill to go fast, to go slow, all in the same. All in the same point. Like, it does translate well to understanding that not everybody can do it when you watch it in person, but on screen, on stream, it still looks like everybody can do it. You know what I mean? Right? Even. Even when people watch the US Open in tennis, you're like, okay, that, you know, they're. They're pretty good. They're like, almost outside of the serve, like ground stroke rallies. You see everybody. You know, that's when the courts are busy right after the U.S. open, or as U.S. opens going, people go out because they're like, that doesn't look that hard. I can go out and hit ground strokes just like they can.
[00:10:43] Speaker C: Right?
[00:10:44] Speaker B: And that's. That's pickleball on steroids. Right? Like every. Like, it's. There's the paddle, it's more accessible, it's easier. So it really is a challenge on stream, making it seem like. Or having it translate to what you see in person. And that's not been solved yet, I don't think.
But I was just talking to. I was just talking to Adam Stone on the podcast about. And I think I tweeted this, but.
So I haven't watched a ton of tennis. I watched the Slams because I think it's interesting. I like to see how the Americans are doing, and the up and comers are always fun to try to, you know, keep tabs on. And one thing that I kind of, you know, with the pickleball mindset now, of thinking about, like, how can we increase viewership, one of the thoughts that came to mind is in tennis, even in a best of five match on the men's side, you're pretty invested from the get go if you're really into the match, because the break and hold dynamic in tennis makes. It really. Makes it like there's these micro moments early in matches that really matter, that have a lot of tension. If you're serving and you go down, love 30 or 1540, you're hanging onto those points because you know how big a break is. So. And that happens throughout the entire set, right from first set to, like, there's all these micro moments that really matter. And so thinking, like, how can we. How can we bring those early moments into pickleball to make there more tension at the beginning of matches? Because I've talked to a lot of people that watch rally scoring, and they're like, well, I don't really pay attention until somebody gets to 20. You know, like, it's just. It's just noise. Before that, when somebody gets to 20, then I'll watch.
And, you know, sports are always more. More fun to watch at the end of a game or at the end of a competition.
[00:12:39] Speaker C: Sure, yeah.
[00:12:40] Speaker B: But there does, I feel like there does need to be something earlier on in pickleball games matches that, that emulate kind of that tennis aspect of the break hold. So one thought was. And again this is really out of left. It's wild.
But emulate like instead of the server having the advantage, right. And pickleball, it's the return team that's changed a little bit with you know, paddle technology and how big guys are serving and gals are serving. But the return team still has this, the outright advantage. I think it's 42, 58 was what the stats showed. So 58% to the return team. I'd like that to go a little higher. I'd like that to be like ideally like 65% to the return team. So if we slow down the serve a little bit, I know some people don't like that, but I do think that it would create these moments of you know, if you're, if you're the serving team in pickleball, it's essentially you breaking serve in tennis, right. So you know, you getting that game is a big deal if you win a game on, on your serve in pickleball. So what if we emulated tennis scoring same, same exact thing but had had these micro moments with you know, the serving team winning a game knowing that that's a big deal because the return team has the advantage. Obviously a wild, a wild idea. But I do think there is something to figuring out mechanisms early on in games and matches that that matter, you know.
[00:14:12] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I mean obviously there's, there's and people are always seems to be trying to tweak what's going to work on the pro game. And you know, some of those things I played high level stand volleyball fears and some of those things they slept down into the amateur level. Some of the rules, changes to some of the tweaks. Like we changed everything, you know, in like one go we changed the ball, we changed the width of the court, we changed the rally score, we had let's serve and it all happened at once. So when people are talking about change in pickleball, they always start to panic. But I'm like, man, we changed everything. And you know what, the same teams were winning, it didn't really matter. We just sort of changed the dynamic. I think the thing that I took from beach volleyball and what I think the improvement could be maybe in the pro game is the narrative.
I was a huge tennis fan growing up. I was, you know, in the Borg McEnroe era. And then obviously in college, I was watching Sampras, Agassiz stuff, and the narratives there were incredible because you had these contrasting personalities. What do you think about, like, kind of leaning into that a little bit with some of the players? Whether it's, you know, and I see they're starting to do this with player introductions and things like that, but sort of leaning into these personality traits. You know, I look at the senior game, and there's a lot of that, you know, And I always think of Dave Weinbach, you know, the Badger. He's kind of got this Persona. He's this bouncy guy. You don't really have to build a character around him because he is a character. Yeah.
Can you build. Can you help sort of enhance character traits in this game? Because I think, you know, for me, the thing I don't like about tennis, and I think it's actually slightly pulling back, is there's more personality coming into it. Again, like that. And, yeah, immediately I think the difference in tennis is there's. Everybody plays the same. You just crush ground strokes. So there's. There's, you know, there's no McEnroe necessarily coming to the net and stuff like that. What do you think about the narrative of the game in promoting that?
[00:16:06] Speaker B: I think it's a huge deal. I think you're right. Tennis has done a really good job lately, and a big piece of that is there's so. There's so many tennis players, and it goes pretty deep to where, you know, you don't have to be the best player in the world to still get, you know, noticed and be able to show your personality in pickleball. It's not.
It's tough if you're not, like, on those main courts. Right. Or getting interviewed or all of those things. So you have to almost do it yourself in terms of creating content. And nobody's really very good at it right now. So I do think it's a huge deal. Tennis has some, like Medvedev, hilarious. Like Rublev, all these guys, public. I mean, mainly all the Russian. They're. They're. They're funny.
[00:16:54] Speaker C: Yeah, but even their presses are funny.
[00:16:56] Speaker B: They are. They are. Even the.
But even the up and coming Americans, like, I think there's a. I always see clips of. I think it's uts, which is a kind of a new format, a more fun, personable tennis format. I don't know what the name is, but they always have really, really great clips of, like, players sitting around talking about like, what happened here? What happened there? You see it with, with Jack Socks new podcast with John is nurse.
[00:17:25] Speaker C: Right.
[00:17:25] Speaker B: And Stevie Johnson and Sam Query. Like, they're like, that's what we need. We need. We need kind of players talking about things and not being scared. I think that's the big issue is like players are scared to speak their minds because they're so worried about, I mean, rightfully so, the a contract with the tour or contract with paddle sponsors. But at the same time, like the paddle sponsor the tour, they should want them being controversial. They want like, you should want clicks and attention and, and like that's, that's what the sport needs. And yeah, I think it's a big deal and it's not being done well right now.
[00:18:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I would say. I mean, this is my opinion. I'd say we're in the petty phase of pickleball growth where people are sort of being petty about, oh, so and so did this. So and so said that so and so is not on my particular tour or whatever it happens to be. That's what I appreciate about, you know, this you install what you do on. It feels right is it's. I don't really watch any other podcasts. I'll watch clips of other podcasts, but you're the only one I actually watch through because you both have your feet in two different organizations.
Stone doing obviously PPA broadcast and you playing app and you both being involved at MLP at different times in different phases and units specifically are blunt, which is refreshing to see in here and probably is why some people are attracted to Jimmy Miller, whether you love them or not. He's creating some content that is outside of the, you know, the cliches and all that that you might get the post game interview. So I do agree. I think the podcasts are vital and you were one of the original sort of podcasts out there. And so talk a little bit about that and then we'll get into some other things. But your show, I think what I enjoy the most is obviously the relationship between the two of you. You can sell one, care about each other a great deal and two, like I mentioned earlier, the knowledge base of where you're both coming from. So when you decided to go with Stone and do this kind of, what was your idea? I mean, because at that point, I think I don't even know if he was retired playing yet.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Not yet. Yeah, not yet.
He was on the way out though. It was, it was. I think he tore his. He tour, his family and all that. Yeah. The kid, the kid really, really cemented it. But no, I mean, Stone was, Stone was an easy choice. Right? It's.
He's one of the most beloved personalities out there in pickleball. You know, he walks in, he walks into the room, says something ridiculous and everybody's laughing. He just, he brings a, he brings a good vibe to pretty much wherever he goes. And people, people gravitate towards him, they want to be around him. He's got incredible insight into the game. I think he's one of the, you know, coaching wise and insight wise. I think he's one of the brightest minds and he's in a unique position of having played against most of these players and understanding the game and being one of the smarter, more intelligent analysts of the game. So to me, it was no brainer, you know, to get and talk with my buddy about pickleball who just also happens to have a great personality and also be really intelligent on the game. Just made a lot of sense. And yeah, it's been super fun. We've been a lot more consistent this year on the podcast with Selkirk, we transitioned from the dink kind of being the publisher and promoting it to there are just too many conflicts. Right. Like they had the pickle pod. So it's like, you know, they're going to. And we're covering pretty much the same stuff.
[00:21:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:15] Speaker B: More, more or less. So, you know, to them it's a conflict of interest and that made sense. And Selkirk has been awesome. They've, you know, we have a producer on every episode who's, you know.
[00:21:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: Maintaining audio levels. It's like, it's, it's, it's well done. So.
[00:21:30] Speaker C: Right.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: Yeah, no, just he's been awesome and we've tried to be more consistent, consistent this year. So.
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[00:23:37] Speaker C: Let's switch gears a little bit here. Utr, Universal tennis rating for people that don't know anything about getting ranked or rated in pickleball. You know, because when I first came in there were all these acronyms and you know which one's doing what and are there algorithms and are there not algorithms?
Tennis obviously has been rating people for a very long time. And so for those of us that don't know anything about how the tennis rating works, can you just give us sort of a thumbnail sketch about UTR and then transition that and how that may work with utrp?
[00:24:13] Speaker B: Yeah, tennis is interesting because like growing up, I think ratings, like growing up playing tennis, junior tennis, like we never, as junior players, we never really thought about ratings. It was always based on state ranking. And then there's a sectional ranking, which for me growing up in Georgia was the southern section. And then from the sec, from the southern section, then you look at your national ranking, but it was all ranking based and age group based. So call it 14 and under, your Georgia ranking, your southern ranking, and then your national. The only people. My dad played kind of adult league tennis in Atlanta in an organization called alta, which has an absurd amount of members. It's like probably, I think it's the biggest, the biggest adult tennis league in the country. It's gigantic. And they're, they're getting into pipeline now, which, you know, little, little late, but, but adults were the only ones that really cared about ratings and that was for their leagues. So it's, it's Changed a little bit.
I coached college tennis as I mentioned after I graduated and the issue we had recruiting was the French had, and we recruited internationally heavy.
The French had their own unique rating which was like a negative 2.75. And you're like what is, what does that mean? Like and then you have to go research it and it's all in French and it's hard to, it's hard to understand it. And then the Germany had their own rating too. And then you had to figure out what the German rating was. And it was hard, it was really hard to identify what these ratings meant and how, like how does, how does that German rating, how does that player reflect to the French player and how does that player reflect to the American player who doesn't even have a rating? They just have a ranking.
So there's a whole lot of fragmentation internationally anyways, especially in tennis. When I was coaching, call this like 2008, 2009, something like that. So UTR came along and basically said we're going to create a, we're going to create a, an ageless, genderless rating. So 1 for level based play. So anybody from anywhere that plays this game, whether it's America playing somebody in Germany, if your ratings call it a 8 and their ratings and 8, you can pretty much guarantee that it's going to be level based playing. You guys are going to be a good matchup for each other and you'll have a good match, right. And it won't be lopsided. So that was kind of the, that was kind of the impetus of it is that there was no, there was no rating that was global that people could, you know, get level based play across borders or even really in the US So UTR did a great job. It's kind of the, in tennis anyways, it's the de facto rating that all college coaches look at, especially college coaches because they're the ones looking internationally a lot. So they know if this person's rated this in Italy that they're going to be, you know, they're a 13. They have a 13 on the team. They're going to be very even and it's accurate. They know. So the algorithms really, really dialed in.
They have so much data and basically bringing that algorithm over into pickleball, it's the same goal, right? The, it's really early internationally still on a, for pickleball on a global stage. There's not a ton of people playing. I know there's a lot of, you're seeing events pop up in India and England and there's, you know, French Open and Swedish Open, all these things. But it's still very niche. It's mainly the same players playing in all those tournaments. So the European crew is just traveling to each one. So there's not, there's not this widespread adoption like we have here in the States. So as, as we have that international adoption, it's going to be really important to have an algorithm that's super accurate across borders.
So. Yeah, and that's UTRs coming in and they're kind of the, you know, they are, they are ratings. They've, they've done it for a very long time.
They're. Yeah, they're a data analytics company, pretty much a software company and you know, Silicon Valley based, very well funded, 100 plus employees. It's a, you know, it's a big operation. They have strong revenues and yeah, obviously a little late into the game, there's competitors, you have duper, you have, you know, on the, on the tournament management software side, you have Pickleball brackets, you have pickleball 10, you have, you have competitors. So we're entering a space, you know, call it a little late, but very confident that we are going to create the best product out there. So from the rating to the tournament software, you know, great partners in the app Tour and USA Pickleball becoming the official rating. UTR is now UTRP and also being the official tournament software.
So rolling that out for all the app tournaments starting in Dallas in October and then nationals will be on the platform and it's going hard from there.
[00:29:32] Speaker C: Yeah. So what's your official role with utr?
[00:29:36] Speaker B: Yeah, so with utr, I'm, I'm kind of the director of Pickleball Growth and development, Community activation. So my role is, I've got, I've got some outreach fellas that, that reach out to clubs and try to get them on board, talk about the benefits, get them using the tournament software, the league software, which integrates seamlessly obviously with the rating. So it's, you have, you have an all in one solution where you have, you know, you put in verified results from a tournament on UTR and boom, the ratings. You know, it rolls into the rating immediately which gets updated every 24 hours. So you can see what happened today, you can see tomorrow.
[00:30:14] Speaker C: Right, right. Yeah. And because everybody wants to know obviously where they stand and what they're, what their rating is and how they, they kind of fall in and you know, people check in, you know, monthly if they get updated and all that from their particular tournaments is There last question for this. Is there, is there more of a challenge because pickleball is a doubles dominated game or there is singles to. To get that, that rating correct. Whereas you know, obviously it's easier to rate somebody on an individual basis.
[00:30:44] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. I think that goes for any rating system. When you have more variables, it's going to be, it's going to be tougher to. You're going to need more data to find that accuracy. Singles being 1v1. Yeah, very straightforward. Right.
And what we're seeing now is trying to. I think the international piece is really important because data is only as good as the connectivity of it. So you have call it me that's played a ton of, a ton of events in the US Cross, PPA app, mlp.
I go to India and play and they haven't played any tournaments over here. Right. But now that I have results over there, there's connectivity with all of the matches I add here. So I think players going internationally is a big deal. It helps the rating system. It creates that connectivity that we don't have.
You have these little pods in the US Especially like at clubs. Right. Like let's say, you know, you're a club in Austin somewhere or outside of Austin and all you do is play your league there and everybody there just pretty much plays their league. They don't play tournaments. Once somebody starts playing tournaments elsewhere, go to Georgia. It creates that connectivity. So it's always really, really good when you have players playing in new locations, playing with different people. It just creates that connectivity that we wouldn't have otherwise.
[00:32:13] Speaker C: Yeah, excellent. I mean, it's exciting because I think we're getting to the point where we're seeing, we're finally figuring this out. And I think UCR having done this on obviously a massive level coming into the space is good for its competitors too because it'll push, we'll get it right and ultimately that's what we want.
Before we let you go, I'd be remiss that I talked to Ryan Cherry last week and he was in the film that you and I were also in.
[00:32:46] Speaker B: I like any story that's like any story that starts with I talked to Ryan Cherry.
[00:32:52] Speaker C: Yeah, that was an interesting story in itself. Right. And so obviously the film, the first, what I would call Hollywood produced documentary, Dream Breaker, A Pickleball Story, which was released very short time period for the San Francisco Film Festival for about a week. We could stream it and so, you know, like eight of us saw it maybe during that point, but it sounds like it's going to be widely available very shortly this fall on a wider platform. Just kind of your thoughts about the film and the process of, you know, watching something like that come to life about your sports. You know, you watch, you know, this. You got these series on F1 and you can watch, you know, the series on tennis and all this. And this was, I guess, a one off. But, yeah, your initial thoughts and kind of viewing the film and what you thought about it in sort of the reflection it made on the pro game, you know, specifically.
[00:33:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
First off, I thought you narrating it was just brilliant. Like, I loved it. I thought you did. I thought you did a fantastic job. No, it's not just me blowing smoke. I thought you really did a good job. And it was.
[00:33:55] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:33:56] Speaker B: And yeah, it brought a super unique perspective.
I think no matter what, it's good for the sport to get. To get widespread viewership of a documentary like that, no matter what it portrayed, honestly. Obviously, there's been a ton of chaos and certainly the pro pickleball landscape with the tour wars and the leagues and the contracts and all of that and the personalities at the top.
I thought it was great that, that they got the Dundon interview. Didn't know if that was going to happen, so really cool that you're able to sit down with them, but I think it's going to be great. I think it's just going to bring more awareness, which is what, you know, especially in the pro level, it's what we need. We need more people getting invested into the players. We need those players expressing themselves and showing personality and. And, you know, like the Tysons, he does a great. He does a great job of it. And yeah, he's done like, he's. He's kind of the guy that's. That's doing it right. You know, in terms of, I would agree, creating a brand and like a personality. And you like. He's. He's done an amazing job. You know, whether you like him or don't like him, he's. He's right. He's really done it well.
[00:35:14] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I think you're exactly right. He is sort of the. I would look at him as the prototype if you're going to create a character in a brand. He's really upfront about it. He says, I'm creating this character and this is what I'm doing. And it's drawn, obviously a ton of attention to him and he's making some decent money from this. But I do agree, I think that type of branding is desperately needed in any sport trying to gain traction, but in particular this sport where we don't have the training yet for people, for post game interviews, necessarily where they're polished and they might seem awkward and things like that. And so you do kind of got to do a lot of things on your own and take initiative. And that's what he's, he's really done. And he's a natural, let's be honest. You know, he's. Some people just kind of fall into that.
[00:36:04] Speaker B: It's a, it's a character, but it's also pretty out there. It's pretty, it's, you know, it aligns well with who he is as a person.
[00:36:11] Speaker C: Yeah. And I would say Ryan has done the same thing. You know, he's sort of this, this guy that every. It's probably become part of a problem in his life because every time he shows up, people think he's just going to be out till 4 in the morning. Every single time, he's like, listen, real quick. When I interviewed Ryan and we talked about my role in the film, he goes, my initial thought was, is this the best we can do?
[00:36:36] Speaker B: Oh, that's hilarious. I love it.
[00:36:39] Speaker C: I go, you know what? That's sort of my first impression because when I watched the film, my wife and I turned to each other, we were like, why am I in it? And then my buddy who's a filmmaker goes, you are the.
You change the taste of the film because it's all these talking heads and all these pros. You're ginger, is what he said.
[00:37:00] Speaker B: Yeah, sort of.
[00:37:01] Speaker C: They kind of get a little break and then they get a summary of all the acronyms.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: Yeah, you're the, you're the palate cleanser. Yeah, for sure.
I love it.
[00:37:09] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:37:10] Speaker B: No, I think I'm excited.
[00:37:13] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's, it's. I. What's funny is to listen to people react to it who have seen it, including yourself, you know, talking. Like when you were talking about me in the film, explaining it to Stone.
And then at the end, these guys, like, they're in the wilderness and I think he's playing a banjo.
[00:37:28] Speaker B: And.
[00:37:32] Speaker C: Because it is. When they came out to film, I warned them. I'm like, listen, you know, we are in the middle of nowhere, on the grid. I live in Kurtz. And just so you know, it's not going to be comfortable filming here. And they were champs and they did a great job. And I'm actually very happy with how the film turned out and everybody's role in it, I think they had, you know, they brought in Lee Whitwell, which was great. Huge personality, obviously, Ryan, yourself. And so, yeah, I'm excited for people to see it and, you know, give their feedback, whether they like it or hate it or what. At least there'll be some engagement.
[00:38:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm glad this. We got out there was. There's another one that filmed a ton with.
With our team for mlp when I was on the Aces, the Brooklyn Aces. I mean, we had. We had them staying basically at the. At the Airbnbs with us at the events.
They came and they came and flew out and shot with me in Florida.
They went to Raleigh to shoot with Adam and Corinne and the baby.
[00:38:28] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:38:29] Speaker B: And then. Yeah, then I was told that it just got put on ice and that they couldn't sell it or. Yeah, which. Yeah, which was a bummer because they filmed a ton of content. And I think, man, like, why can't that be, like, released on YouTube or something like that?
[00:38:43] Speaker C: Well, that's the thing, you know, I think I've learned a great deal through this process because, you know, they started filming this thing at the first mlp, which is three years ago right about now, and it still has not been widely released. And I'm like. It's a. Quote, the director, Ashley, she said, movies take a long time.
[00:39:01] Speaker B: And I'm like, yeah.
[00:39:02] Speaker C: I mean, holy cow. And the longest part of this whole process is really about getting it sold and getting it out.
And I might even if you're. You're a Hollywood, you know, director and stuff like that, it's no guarantee, as we found out, with these people that have filmed a ton of stuff. So, yeah, I feel grateful that it's eventually going to be out here and people will get to see it because it was a very. It's a long process.
[00:39:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember. I remember them shooting at the first mlp, and I was like, yeah, then I completely forgot about it, and then they kind of popped up again in my. In my purview. Whenever we shot, you know, some interviews, maybe 23. Had to be 23, I think.
[00:39:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:39:42] Speaker B: I was like, man, this is the same. Oh, this is the Same shoot from 21. Same people.
[00:39:47] Speaker C: Right?
[00:39:47] Speaker B: I was like, oh, this is. This is. Yeah, this is a long project. Got it.
[00:39:51] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Before we get you out of here, you know, this game's explode. Where do you see this? This is crazy. I mean, you know, obviously none of us saw all of this coming down the pike. And you.
We talked about it. Briefly. But, like, specifically with the pro game, where's it going, man?
[00:40:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, really, it's.
[00:40:16] Speaker C: Every week's a new thing.
[00:40:18] Speaker B: Yeah. The pro game, to me is a big question mark, I think, you know, talking about the amateur side, it's an easy answer. It's. It's gonna be. It's gonna be Padel in Europe. It's gonna be kind of that level, which is just huge. There's gonna be facilities.
I mean, it's shocking to me how many Padel facilities they get up in Europe because I was like, oh, the infrastructure in Padel versus pickleball is such a pain. But they put these facilities up like nothing. So I'm like, oh, well, this should be even easier for pickleball. So, yeah, you know, on that side of things, I think. And that's going to lead into more pro stuff, I believe, participation wise. I think the more infrastructure there is in Europe and Asia and more permanent facilities where you have dedicated pickleball courts, where it doesn't feel like you're going to go to a gym. And, you know, in Ireland, I was in Ireland last year, and like, you go play in the gym and you're competing for gym space with the dancers and the badminton and the soccer and, like, I feel like. And you don't really get the feel of pickleball like that, but when somebody goes into a facility that has a dedicated court and call it a cafe or a smoothie bar, you're like, oh, this is like, this is nice. This is cool. I want to spend a lot of time here. There's just a different vibe. So I think the more facilities that go up, that are permanent facilities across Europe, across Asia, will really drive the growth like we've seen here in the U.S. to be honest, I think it was the same thing.
A ton of gym floors, and then you get some outdoor courts that are permanent and then indoor facilities, and it just snowballs. And I think we're going to see the same thing internationally. It's just a little laggy, and I think that's going to drive a ton of growth, especially Asia. India, you have. You have these. India especially, right? It's very, very low wages. Typically.
Tennis is a very inaccessible sport to. To a lot of Indians. Like, you have to come from, you know, wealthier families to even get that opportunity. What I like about India is that in particular, global sports, who I do most of the work with over there, who put on the monsoon championship, the Indian Open, like, one of the things that resonated the most with me when I was talking to Shashank, who's one of the owners, is, he was basically giving me the breakdown of cricket. And there's something in India called street cricket, so. And cricket's everything. This is. That's the national sport. I mean, that is, you know, the top cricket player has more followers than like the Kardashians or something. Like, it's insane how. How popular they are. And I don't remember what he said, but like some of the very top cricket players in the country came from just like the slums and that came from street cricket where they had organized leagues and basically in the streets. But you could learn the sport no matter what your economic background was. And that's their vision for pickleball. And I think that's the beauty of pickleball, honestly, is that you just have to throw up a net. You just need a paddles and a ball. And even if it's not a real ball or whatever it may be, you can play the sport and it's super accessible.
And I think that's the beauty of it. And that's going to drive the growth. And I think that's what's driven the growth everywhere is how easy it is to get going.
[00:43:25] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, you can play in your cul de sac, you can play in your driveway. I put a half court in my parents basements. That's the thing. And I think from those places, those are where the stories and the narratives build. Ultimately you have very diverse backgrounds and where these people, what they people have overcome and what they're striving to do and the characters that they are. And so, you know, I hope the narrative starts to build a little more and I think it will internationally because it is. We're in a little bit of a bubble right now and obviously you got outside of that bubble and we're gone for a long time and out there and seeing what's happening. I talked to Megan Fudge a few months back and you know, she's doing the same thing. And that's what I appreciate about what y'all do is you're not only playing at a very high level, but you're. You're really involved, being ambassadors and kudos to you both. So.
[00:44:16] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think. Appreciate that. And I think, I mean, so the app is building a, basically a touring pro program down at the fort, where it's going to be essentially the idea of what IMG is for tennis. It's where you go train, it's, you know, schooling, boarding the whole the whole room and board deal and you're playing pickleball all day and training and it's a real, it's a real profession and it's a real, you know, it's a real goal for, for people to come over and have a place to go to train. Because right now there's nothing like that. There's no, there's no academy or place where you can go for a high level practice other than, you know, trying to get into groups in Austin or trying to get in groups in South Florida. So I think it's really cool what they're doing. And I've already had so many people reach out wanting to come to the US to train with me and to get coaching and like, the interest internationally in the pro game here is huge. And to your point, I think when players like that start coming over and we start learning their story about growing up in India or growing up in Taiwan or Bali or whatever it may be, and they come over and I think that's when the narrative starts building, like you said. And we're so early. It's, you know, this whole thing started in 2020 in terms of the tours, so it feels like everything's moved at kind of warp speed.
Yeah, this is kind of the first time where I'm like, oh, it's been four years. That's actually pretty long time because it's been high school. Yeah, yeah, it's been a whole. It's been freshman to senior.
But yeah, I think the pro game. The pro game is going to keep going. I will be very curious on what happens at the end of these contracts. That's a big question mark, right?
[00:46:01] Speaker C: So, yeah, that's a whole other podcast.
[00:46:05] Speaker B: Yes, it is. Yes, it is.
[00:46:07] Speaker C: That's your realm. Thanks, Rob. I mean, obviously you can watch Rob on it. Feels right. And also, you know, Selker TV Selker Sponsored player poised on the app tour involved with utr. All the links in the description if you want to touch base with Rob. And again, thanks for your time, Rob, and keep doing what you're doing because you're one of my faves, man.
[00:46:28] Speaker B: No, I appreciate you. Thanks for having me on. I've got a new podcast with soccer coming out that just got released called behind the Paddle and I would love to have you on as a guest to talk a little bit about your journey. I mean, so unique as is, but your journey and what brought you into pickleball and the whole deal. So we'd love to have you on, if that's okay.
[00:46:47] Speaker C: Yeah, that would be great. And again, everything down below. And follow Rob, man, because the guy can play.
[00:46:54] Speaker B: Thanks, Rob.
[00:46:54] Speaker C: Thanks, man.
[00:46:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you.
[00:46:56] Speaker A: Hope you enjoyed our conversation with Rob Nunnery. Again, folks, at the end of the day, you know what to do. Subscribe to that newsletter. And hey, let's pickle.
